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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 4, 2023 12:50:58 GMT
How do other religious communions deal with supporting married clergy? To my knowledge, no non-Catholic religious sect requires celibacy (or even encourages it) among their ministers. Some even condone their ministers being in same-sex marriages ( miserere Domine). Short answer, their ministers either work second jobs, the congregation just gives more money, or a combination of both. And very often the wives work too. (Did they back in the day when a husband's salary supported the whole family?) Some sects also offer the minister and his family a parsonage, ergo free housing.
I read that some require or strongly encourage tithing. There are more, like very effective financing and business management.
I also hear that several even check up on religious service attendance.
They certainly do. I know of one church (Baptist) where they ask to see your yearly tax return, so that they can verify that you are giving 10 percent of your income. I don't know if that's gross or net. They are also vigilant about attendance. That probably doesn't apply to the mainline, moderate, "old school" Protestant denominations (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Anglican, et al), as they have very few people to show up for services. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 4, 2023 12:53:39 GMT
To anyone interested, here's one article about married priests: www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-married-priests-2017-story.htmlAlso, from the same article, and in light of the thread topic: Also, many parts of the Catholic world can barely afford to pay the wages of priests they already have, let alone new ones. They also can't afford to pay for things like a permanent diaconate. Actually, they also don't have enough funds for even personnel like doctors and nurses, as well as teachers, in Catholic hospitals and schools. Just wondering, how, then, do Protestant churches in these parts of the world pay their ministers? The poverty in these areas isn't confined to Catholics. Or does it tend to be volunteer, part-time clergy who, at most, might be paid a small stipend? Are there full-time, salaried Protestant clergy in Africa and Latin America? |
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Post by ralfy on Jun 5, 2023 2:35:24 GMT
To anyone interested, here's one article about married priests: www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pope-married-priests-2017-story.htmlAlso, from the same article, and in light of the thread topic: Also, many parts of the Catholic world can barely afford to pay the wages of priests they already have, let alone new ones. They also can't afford to pay for things like a permanent diaconate. Actually, they also don't have enough funds for even personnel like doctors and nurses, as well as teachers, in Catholic hospitals and schools. Just wondering, how, then, do Protestant churches in these parts of the world pay their ministers? The poverty in these areas isn't confined to Catholics. Or does it tend to be volunteer, part-time clergy who, at most, might be paid a small stipend? Are there full-time, salaried Protestant clergy in Africa and Latin America?
I hear some have tithing, mandatory attendance, and business managers and strategic planners to handle the Church in the same way as they would a corporation. Also, the Churches look alike, and they have standard requirements for uniforms, etc., which means they know costs immediately and can make deals with construction and clothing material providers, and so forth. And other groups that they have, such as media corporations and events centers, are operated in the same way.
I think the success lies with business managers and strategic planners and the manner by which they determine revenues and allocate funds correctly.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 5, 2023 3:02:50 GMT
Just wondering, how, then, do Protestant churches in these parts of the world pay their ministers? The poverty in these areas isn't confined to Catholics. Or does it tend to be volunteer, part-time clergy who, at most, might be paid a small stipend? Are there full-time, salaried Protestant clergy in Africa and Latin America?
I hear some have tithing, mandatory attendance, and business managers and strategic planners to handle the Church in the same way as they would a corporation. Also, the Churches look alike, and they have standard requirements for uniforms, etc., which means they know costs immediately and can make deals with construction and clothing material providers, and so forth. And other groups that they have, such as media corporations and events centers, are operated in the same way.
I think the success lies with business managers and strategic planners and the manner by which they determine revenues and allocate funds correctly.
I'm not clear on what role uniforms would play in these churches (I assume you're referring to Protestant churches). By "uniforms", do you mean choir robes, and/or vestments for their ministers, if they use them? I'm pretty sure that fundamentalist churches don't have any kind of distinctive clothing for their ministers --- they just wear, in the US at least, either business suits or anything else that would be seen as appropriate and modest. By the time you get towards more formal churches such as Presbyterian or Methodist, the ministers often wear some kind of simple robe, a faint echo of liturgical vestments. Some churches have choir robes (something you don't generally see in Catholic churches, BTW) and others would simply wear whatever they would wear to church otherwise. An interesting variation on this is found in African American churches, where people generally dress very nicely, men with smartly tailored suits, and the women wear often-elaborate hats as well as their "Sunday best". They really look sharp. In many such churches, the women wear all-white clothing, loose dresses and blouses, for their communion service and possibly otherwise. Driving by an AA church on Sunday morning and observing the people's dress can be an unforgettable experience. Also, I respect the role of business managers and strategic planning, but what happens when the demographic is so poor, that they simply can't afford to give much? I can foresee that this would be the norm, rather than the exception, in the Global South. In Poland in the 1990s and 2000s, when I attended Mass there, donations were very modest, and I asked my wife for advice on what to put into the collection basket. She advised me that anything over the equivalent of $10 would be so extraordinary as to render the sacristan speechless. |
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bluekumul
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Christian humanist, democratic socialist, world citizen
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Post by bluekumul on Jun 5, 2023 7:16:32 GMT
The secular media often see a link between celibacy and child abuse. Oddly, they never accuse Buddhist monks of molesting anybody despite these monks being celibate as well.
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 5, 2023 9:47:23 GMT
Oh they've taken to that now as well. The Dalai Lama's faced some flak over stuff suggesting he is a child abuser recently.
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bluekumul
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Post by bluekumul on Jun 5, 2023 12:09:37 GMT
Oh they've taken to that now as well. The Dalai Lama's faced some flak over stuff suggesting he is a child abuser recently. His expiry date is over  I remember that in the 90s he was presented as sort of liberal boomer alternative to Jesus. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 5, 2023 13:16:20 GMT
Oh they've taken to that now as well. The Dalai Lama's faced some flak over stuff suggesting he is a child abuser recently. Interesting considering that he is of color, of the Global South, and not a Christian. You'd think the media would protect that like a basket of newborn kittens. |
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bluekumul
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Post by bluekumul on Jun 5, 2023 13:30:50 GMT
Oh they've taken to that now as well. The Dalai Lama's faced some flak over stuff suggesting he is a child abuser recently. Interesting considering that he is of color, of the Global South, and not a Christian. You'd think the media would protect that like a basket of newborn kittens. Maybe China is the reason, for them he is a separatist leader. |
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 5, 2023 13:33:20 GMT
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 5, 2023 13:49:39 GMT
Interesting considering that he is of color, of the Global South, and not a Christian. You'd think the media would protect that like a basket of newborn kittens. Maybe China is the reason, for them he is a separatist leader. Oh, yeah, forgot about China. They, too, tick the boxes of political correctness that I noted above. And they're rich (at least the country as an economic juggernaut is), so they get even more love. |
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 5, 2023 14:09:06 GMT
China is far from getting unqualified love in the media. They often are the subject of critical articles.
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bluekumul
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Post by bluekumul on Jun 5, 2023 16:21:01 GMT
China is far from getting unqualified love in the media. They often are the subject of critical articles. The mainstream media is far from being a monolithic entity. Some journos are neocons, seeing the world polarized along a democracy-autocracy axis. Others follow a postwar leftist ideology, unconditionally promoting anti-racism, non-violence, etc. Yet others are plain old progressives, slagging off anything old-fashioned and religious. And there must be some honest truth-searchers.
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 5, 2023 17:28:54 GMT
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 5, 2023 17:50:25 GMT
Grace Jones is not a lady with whom any man in his right mind would trifle. Strong, resolute woman. Very admirable. |
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I remember that in the 90s he was presented as sort of liberal boomer alternative to Jesus.