bluekumul
Full Member
Christian humanist, democratic socialist, world citizen
Posts: 200
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Post by bluekumul on Jul 4, 2023 17:00:56 GMT
It doesn't spell big trouble in practical terms, for reasons described above. It is the norm in statistical terms:
It didn't look much different in medieval Europe.
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Post by ralfy on Jul 5, 2023 0:57:24 GMT
Meanwhile, there are also views that husbands and wives who hate each other might also do grave damage to their children.
No doubt. In some marriages, whether valid or invalid, there can be dysfunction between the husband and the wife, and if it can be done, it might be better for the spouses to separate, and not expose the children to this. (Separation and divorce are two different things --- does Filipino law allow for bed and board separation without divorce? I don't know. You would know better than I would.) In other marriages, as I alluded to (but possibly didn't bring out sufficiently), the putative husband and wife, or even a cohabiting couple without benefit of any kind of marriage at all, valid or invalid, may get along famously, and the children benefit from being in such a home. To break up the home would take something away from the children that, in and of itself, is good --- a mother and father together, regardless of any questions of the liciety of the relationship. In such cases, the couple simply has to make up their minds, for the good of the children if nothing else, to abstain from sexual relations, a "Josephite marriage". They may foresee that they will possibly fail at total continence. That is where sheer will power comes in. You make up your mind that, in spite of everything, you will abstain, but if you don't --- if you "backslide" --- you just do like the old Nat King Cole song says, "pick yourself up, brush yourself off, and start all over again". And in the midst of this, there is the Grace of God, what you think may not be possible, becomes possible. That aspect of Amoris laetitia, I have absolutely no problem with. But if AL is suggesting --- IF AL is suggesting --- that conjugality with no intent of abstaining, with both spouses agreeing upon this course of action, is somehow acceptable, then, yes, that's a big problem. Does AL suggest that?
I think the country has a family code that requires child support, but that's it. In short, it allows only separation but not divorce, which means if you marry someone else, then you commit bigamy.
The only way out is annulment, and that's not only difficult to prove but very expensive.
The rest of my asides are maintained: high rates of teen pregnancies, public services that can't catch up with population increase, etc. It gets even more complicated when the birth rates are actually declining due to increased prosperity driven by overseas work that also leads to artificial separation, e.g., one or more parents don't see their children for years because they can't afford to leave their work temporarily, i.e., fears that their foreign employers will replace them with others, and there are many waiting even from other countries to find jobs.
The responses remain, too: most Filipinos who are also Catholic support divorce because they can't afford annulment, and it might not succeed. Most politicians don't because they fear criticism from the Church, which in turn has lost a lot of political clout because of increasing prosperity leading to less religiosity (only around 40 pct of Catholics go to Mass weekly), even though they're supposed to represent a constituency that does, etc.
Given that, I think AL and many other documents from Pope Francis aren't meant to be heretical but implicitly address problems in the world that the Church needs to face and respond to directly. And that means looking at this issue from economic and political perspectives, but it's not that easy. Here's one example that explains why:
It's said that one of the most favored politicians of the Catholic Church in the Philippines is Gloria Arroyo, a pro-U.S. and U.S.-educated economist (classmates with Bill Clinton at Georgetown) who opposes divorce:
But she also has one of the lowest approval ratings among most of the public due to corruption:
And one of those controversies involved top Philippine Catholic clergy receiving gifts from her and had to return them and apologize to the public:
The presents not only included expensive SUVs but purchased using charity funds!
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