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Post by iagosan on Nov 24, 2023 9:38:33 GMT
Rioting in central Dublin following stabbings of children and adults by man armed with a "large knife"
"Dublin erupts after schoolgirl stabbing horror: Thugs clash with police and rioting and looting breaks out as fury grips the city after three children and a woman are stabbed and mob blames 'migrants'"
"Breaking News: Suspect in Dublin stabbing Algerian national, Gardai believe"
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 10:33:20 GMT
I fail to see what was gained by burning buses and cars and looting shops. The nights rioting saw multiple shops damaged and loads of stock nicked. You can see footage of a load of a teenage lads running in and out of a branch of Footlocker grabbing trainers and stuff. Apparently this is part of the political dialectical I am unaware of. If these lads dreamed they were striking a 'blow for Ireland' doing this some mummies need to potentially be giving some lads some smacks on bottoms this morning.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 24, 2023 11:27:57 GMT
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 11:41:25 GMT
There is a great deal of unrest over recent immigration into Ireland and you have the added complication of groups like the 'National Party' starting rows about this. Also, there is a real issue with homelessness in Ireland. The fact Ukrainians and other refugees have been housed has caused MASSIVE tensions in parts of Dublin's inner-city and other areas.
Because the bloke who did the stabbing was probably Algerian but had lived in Ireland for around twenty years and has Irish citizenship this is being seized upon as a moment to start scapegoating foreigners. Especially as the case involving Josef Puska's trial for the murder of Ashling Murphy is concurrent to it.
The lads nicking from the shops wouldn't care if Michael Collins owned them if they could get free goods. Some of them are probably owned by Irish people, and some are probably owned by multi-national corporations.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 24, 2023 14:38:26 GMT
I can see local poor people being upset by a big fuss being made over helping newly arrived poor people. The unspoken subtext being that the new arrivals are seen as having the capacity to soon become productive members of society, while those who have been around for a while and still poor are viewed as being unmotivated or lazy or whatever. We get the same thing in US but because we're a bigger place there is some limited option to relocate or isolate new arrivals when tensions start to rise.
Having said that, if the perp has been in the country for 20 years already and isn't anything close to Ukrainian then it can't be blamed on the new arrivals and appears to be just another sad case of a random violent mentally ill person.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 15:06:56 GMT
This is part of the underlying issue Bear. The Ukrainians have become 'a boy to beat' in Irish politics and are invoked at every turn sadly now. The whole matter has become a mare's nest.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 24, 2023 15:27:11 GMT
Is all this emigration of different cultures to Ireland being driven by EU membership of the country, or was it happening before?
I have little desire to move back to Ireland, it's nice to visit but after 3 generations in US, the USA is "home", and as you have said many times it is no longer the Ireland of my great-grands much less of Hollywood. But it sometimes seems odd that the country is welcoming low-income people from all sorts of countries that weren't even part of the British Empire, while emigrating back there from a place like US, even with Irish heritage, seems to be very difficult unless one is very rich.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 18:30:56 GMT
It's really something that happened as Ireland began to lose the image of being a backwater place everyone left to go to the US, Britain, Australia etc. It became a place for people to migrate to. Also, for some time due to the rules about citizenship people were having 'anchor babies' till the law was changed on that via referendum eventually. The EU has been a blessing and a curse I would say. Early on it paid for things Ireland in that era simply couldn't afford and helped it out but there are agreements about population movement and migration that problematic at this point. My view on issues around the British Empire is that post-independence and especially after early 1949 when we were no longer part of the Commonwealth is that I would have favoured people of Irish descent first.
I believe like my own family yours originally came from rural areas. The world of inner-city Dublin is rough and quite nasty. It is a lot like the Council Estates in London I grew up in where there was a lot of fighting and drug abuse and so forth. You had a certain number of people who kept out of that who were the 'respectable working-class' but there was also crazy stuff going on. These are people who feel marginalized and trapped.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 24, 2023 18:52:00 GMT
My family on grandmother's side got straight out of rural Cork to the hassles of rural Canada in 1825. I understand grandma grew up around farms and such. Grandpa's side went to Stoke-on-trent for a bit in the late 1800s which I suspect was not pleasant but then on to US where they ended up in a decent enough area.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 18:57:13 GMT
Part of the issues here can be laid at the feet of the Irish government which has disenfranchised these people with austerity politics. They made them feel unwanted and totally marginalized and when that happens you get results like this. The violence is lamentable and awful mind you, so far three buses and a tram burnt out. The caregiver who was protecting the kids is also badly injured as she blocked the man wielding the knife and took some of the blows herself.
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Post by iagosan on Nov 24, 2023 19:05:44 GMT
An interesting report in the Guardian regarding motives of some of the rioters:
‘Government is not listening’: anger over immigration spills into riot on Dublin’s streets Night of unrest in Irish capital an overdue reckoning for many who say their concerns are not being addressed"
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 24, 2023 19:11:07 GMT
Varadkar is perceived as an elitist with little in common with working people. Also, the current coalition is there in power because it is blocking Sinn Fein. Normally those two parties are in opposition to each other but the horror of having Sinn Fein in power made them co-operate to stop that.
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Post by iagosan on Nov 25, 2023 6:58:42 GMT
Varadkar is perceived as an elitist with little in common with working people. Also, the current coalition is there in power because it is blocking Sinn Fein. Normally those two parties are in opposition to each other but the horror of having Sinn Fein in power made them co-operate to stop that. |
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 25, 2023 10:11:49 GMT
Ireland is a small country with many issues on its plate at home, and not playing a big role on the world stage. Is it really that important what politicians or people in Ireland think of what’s occurring in other countries, aside from perhaps their nearest neighbors such as UK? I seriously doubt anyone in Israel is laying awake over what Ireland thinks of their situation.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 25, 2023 10:51:46 GMT
Ireland has a fair bit of soft power on the world stage Bear. One Israeli politician was excluded from the Knesset after arguing that Palestinians who didn't like what was going on should all leave and go to Ireland. There are also a number of very complicated links between Ireland and Israel historically. Issac Herzog's grandfather was the Chief Rabbi of Ireland and his grandfather was strongly on the side of the Republicans and hid people like DeValera and Collins in his home at times. He was known as the, 'Sinn Fein Rabbi' in Dublin. The Lord Mayor Dublin at one point was Robert Briscoe who played a major role in smuggling arms to Israel early in its existence. The led to him facing a lot of tension and problems back home with the government. Michael Noyk who was Michael Collin's solicitor (and a figure who has been overlooked by history) was instrumental in helping purchase buildings used by both the nascent Irish and Israeli governments. He's buried in London and when he died the Irish government sent members of the Defence Forces over to give him a military funeral. The first tanks belonging to the Israelis were er, borrowed from British forces by an Irishman serving in the British Army at that point. He then joined the Israeli Defence Forces and converted to Judaism and eventually retired as a Colonel.
Early on in Israel's modern existence there was more support for Israel, especially when they were fighting the British.
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