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Post by ralfy on Dec 16, 2023 3:17:42 GMT
From what I remember, words like "earth", "mud", etc., have Saxon origins while the Normans brought in references to "justice" and "castle". Thus, English is a weird combination of Germanic and Romance languages. I think he added that even the term "English" is limited as it refers only to the Angles; there were many other groups that entered the isles. Even before the Normans arrived, there was already a lot of mixup with what Romans, and later Danes and others, brought in, including -ham (Saxon), -caster (Roman), -son (Nordic), and so on.
A colleague from another discipline (military history) told me that the language is like an F4U Corsair, which he nicknamed "The Widow Maker" because it killed a lot of inexperienced pilots. In the hands of those who survived training, though....
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 16, 2023 11:02:29 GMT
The words for animals in the field still betray the Saxon and Norman split.
Words such as pig, sheep and cow have pre-Norman roots. However, the words for the meat from these animals such as pork, beef and mutton have Norman roots.
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Post by tth1 on Dec 18, 2023 17:23:16 GMT
Accents in the UK are numerous. Bill Bryson in his book, "Mother Tongue", says we have far more than other English speaking countries such as Australia or the US. A lot of people don't believe me that I can tell the difference between people who come from one end of my home town from another. May be a southerner couldn't. But locals can definitely tell the difference. Then just over the hill is Yorkshire and you're into another set off accents. Mind you I'm still not convinced they speak English.  |
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 18, 2023 20:41:07 GMT
I could as a kid tell you the difference between people with Cockney accents from all around the area. Even nowadays I can tell you the difference between where some of the kids with newer dialects come from. The Cockney accent has been replace to a large accent with stuff such as English inflected with patois. It is not uncommon to get someone asking someone else, 'Where the mandem at bro?' and have someone reply, 'Allow it brethren, they are running a bit late, it's minor.'
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Post by tth1 on Dec 20, 2023 15:34:50 GMT
I've always understood that a true Cockney accent was limited to a particular area of London. If my memory serves me correctly you had to be born within the sound of Bow Bells. I'm understanding you're using 'Cockney' in its more common usage as referring to a London accent. I've always tried to do that pronunciation where the letter 'l' seems to become a 'w'. I just can't seem to manage it. Perhaps real Londoners don't do that, only actors on Eastenders.
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 20, 2023 15:41:58 GMT
In my case, I was born within the sound of Bow Bells so I am a Cockney. Eastenders was more accurate in its early years, even then it overdid things but some of the issues it dealt with were a touch more rooted in reality and it could be surprisingly gritty. It also gave us that great figure Dot Cotton, the modern Hilda Ogden. Dot's character was one that it was easy to laugh at but June Brown managed to make her sympathetic and she truly believed in her faith. A good thing too considering how much bad luck she had.
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