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Post by blackforest on Dec 15, 2023 15:06:06 GMT
Headlines all too often state a correlation without proof of causation. My own hypothesis is that Catholic school parents were already struggling with the tuition, ( which has increased exponentially) then the pandemic emboldened them to continue homeschooling. ("Hey, I can actually DO this!") |
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 15, 2023 23:56:46 GMT
Headlines all too often state a correlation without proof of causation. My own hypothesis is that Catholic school parents were already struggling with the tuition, ( which has increased exponentially) then the pandemic emboldened them to continue homeschooling. ("Hey, I can actually DO this!") What I see happening is, at least where I live, Catholic education becoming an elitist-type thing, pushing academic excellence while ignoring that not all students are capable of being academically excellent. "Back in the day", if you were Catholic, and if there was a Catholic school in your area, that's where you went, period. Of course, in those days, you had religious as teachers, and they worked for basically nothing, just room, board, benefits, and a small stipend for personal items, and where we did need lay teachers to supplement the staff, they were teachers who were willing to work for near-minimum wage, because that's all the parish could afford. (Tuition was free for parishioners and $300/year for non-Catholics.) Sadly, when you pay that little, you will either get fervently apostolic Catholics for whom it is a labor of love, or, shall we say, teachers who are not exactly the best teachers in the world. As to the academic standards, it was a case of "you get out of it what you put into it". With accepting anyone who just happened to be Catholic, you got some excellent students, and you got students who could barely write their own names and weren't interested in learning much more than that. As a practical matter, there was liberal use of "extra credit" work at the end of the quarter to keep such students barely within a 2.0 average (what you had to have to play sports, which some did, and to be fair, that was exclusively a male phenomenon in what was a co-ed school --- the female athletes were at least average students, some of them being very bright). But nowadays there's no room in such schools for students who simply can't (or won't) make any more than minimal grades. Just facing facts, some pupils are lazy, and the best you can do, is to provide them with the minimal education which is all they're interested in. (It's fair to say that some students may have had learning disabilities that went undiagnosed, and not being able to learn, they simply slacked off and/or masked their disability behind borderline performance and, yes, cheating.) I'm not suggesting that excellence isn't something that should be pursued, and held up as the ideal, but at the end of the day, some people's academic abilities only go so far, even with the best education in the world. They matter too. |
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Post by tisbearself on Dec 16, 2023 16:36:04 GMT
It ain't down where I live. The Catholic school at the nearest parish is building new classrooms and there are at least 5 other Catholic schools within a 10 mile radius. The enrollment is being driven by new development/ new families moving into the area, and probably by dissatisfaction with the public schools. After COVID, the Catholic schools reopened at least a year earlier than the public schools. I'm sure that as well as the quality of education got people's attention.
In another area I'm familiar with, the demographics have shifted away from families with young children, which caused some of the Catholic elementary schools to merge, but there are at least three separate elementary schools still going, plus all the Catholic high schools were unaffected as they bus students in from all over the place and are not affected by their specific neighborhoods. The best Catholic high school in the area for decades was located in a neighborhood that had become a place where you didn't walk around much, especially after dark. It did not affect the popularity of the school. I think the neighborhood is on the upswing again now due to gentrification.
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 16, 2023 17:34:47 GMT
It ain't down where I live. The Catholic school at the nearest parish is building new classrooms and there are at least 5 other Catholic schools within a 10 mile radius. The enrollment is being driven by new development/ new families moving into the area, and probably by dissatisfaction with the public schools. After COVID, the Catholic schools reopened at least a year earlier than the public schools. I'm sure that as well as the quality of education got people's attention. In another area I'm familiar with, the demographics have shifted away from families with young children, which caused some of the Catholic elementary schools to merge, but there are at least three separate elementary schools still going, plus all the Catholic high schools were unaffected as they bus students in from all over the place and are not affected by their specific neighborhoods. The best Catholic high school in the area for decades was located in a neighborhood that had become a place where you didn't walk around much, especially after dark. It did not affect the popularity of the school. I think the neighborhood is on the upswing again now due to gentrification. We are probably talking about two different demographics and drivers of growth. I live in the South, in an area that brings in a lot of Northern transplants who come here on account of various entities that either transfer or draw them here. Many of these people are Catholics. These people, being highly educated as they are, are high achievers by definition, and they seek out achievement-oriented and success-oriented education for their children, who they hope will follow in their footsteps. To hire the best teachers, you have to charge high tuition. (In all fairness, there is financial aid, but you have to allow the school to put your household budget under a microscope.) The public schools are also perceived to have, ahem, urban issues, and if you would get these people (and not just these people) liquored up enough, they'd admit that's a factor too. Put all of this together, and it's going to foster the growth of an academically challenging alternate school system, but sadly, not one where just any Catholic can come and get the education suited to their abilities --- whether prodigious or just average --- at low cost (but see my comment about FA above). And as far as the catechetical aspect of it goes, I have to wonder just how heavily they could "double down" on Catholic teaching, lest they alienate those who are more "progressive" or not even Catholic to begin with. When I pulled my son out in Grade 6, I discovered that he knew virtually nothing about the subject matter we started covering in the Baltimore Catechism. We've been through BC#2 twice (because once wasn't enough), and then BC#3, and by now, he has a knowledge base that I'm willing to bet not a single student at our Catholic high school has. |
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Post by tisbearself on Dec 16, 2023 20:14:06 GMT
The demographic is no different in my areas. For some parents, "quality education" outweighs religious concerns. Other families are interested in both. Tuition is not cheap, but a bright kid or someone connected to the Church can often qualify for assistance.
There are specific schools that stress the religious aspect more heavily so the family needs to pick one of those and not, say, the Jesuit school, which is apt to have great education but rainbow flags flying everywhere if you get my drift.
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Post by ralfy on Dec 17, 2023 4:41:23 GMT
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Post by blackforest on Dec 18, 2023 16:48:01 GMT
Headlines all too often state a correlation without proof of causation. My own hypothesis is that Catholic school parents were already struggling with the tuition, ( which has increased exponentially) then the pandemic emboldened them to continue homeschooling. ("Hey, I can actually DO this!") What I see happening is, at least where I live, Catholic education becoming an elitist-type thing, pushing academic excellence while ignoring that not all students are capable of being academically excellent. Similar trends here. I also wonder if Dioceses have reduced their funding for these endeavors. Annual reports only tell part of the story. Also, they don't fund schools run by holy orders, one of which I attended. Mine closed down years ago, but I wonder if they're experiencing the same impact as parochial schools.
Interestingly, I've been watching as Catholic homeschool hybrid efforts expand, like Chesterton and Regina Caeli Academy. They're certainly a more affordable way to approach a Catholic education, although there are drawbacks to lay Catholic parents running the ship.
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 18, 2023 18:09:07 GMT
What I see happening is, at least where I live, Catholic education becoming an elitist-type thing, pushing academic excellence while ignoring that not all students are capable of being academically excellent. Similar trends here. I also wonder if Dioceses have reduced their funding for these endeavors. Annual reports only tell part of the story. Also, they don't fund schools run by holy orders, one of which I attended. Mine closed down years ago, but I wonder if they're experiencing the same impact as parochial schools.
Interestingly, I've been watching as Catholic homeschool hybrid efforts expand, like Chesterton and Regina Caeli Academy. They're certainly a more affordable way to approach a Catholic education, although there are drawbacks to lay Catholic parents running the ship.
What kinds of drawbacks? I was actually invited to teach for my local affiliate of Regina Coeli Academy, but I had to take a pass on that right now. Even as a traditional Catholic homeschooler, some of my methods are a bit unconventional. For instance, in our study of 20th-century US history, we discussed not only Rosa Parks, but her associations with the Highlander School in Tennessee, and we devoted time to discussing Malcolm X (in fact, we did a whole class session on him), the Black Panthers, Paul Robeson, Langston Hughes, and in the 1960s, Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman (whom I heard speak in person at my university, I sat not ten feet from him), and what a s***show the 1968 Democratic Convention turned out to be. Among right-of-center Catholic homeschoolers, I'd be labeled a communist. So no, I don't think Regina Coeli Academy and I would gee-haw with each other. Oh, and we also studied Catholic social doctrine using Fr Dominique Bourmand's (SSPX, requiescat in pace) short book on the subject. So as you can see, we're all over the place. |
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Post by ralfy on Dec 19, 2023 1:32:22 GMT
FWIW, things like liberation theology have been taught in Catholic schools in poor countries. Also, the clergy and lay workers in the latter have also been targets of not only paramilitary units but of even armed members of private armies working for powerful landowners and political dynasties.
One of the main inspirations of liberation theology is said to be Vatican II, with the phrase "preferential option for the poor." Pope Benedict XVI and Pope St. John Paul II disapproved of liberation theology because some brought into it Marxist elements, but eventually the latter Pope paved the way for canonization of one of its prominent supporters, Bishop St. Oscar Romero, who was canonized by Pope Francis.
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Post by blackforest on Dec 20, 2023 16:28:27 GMT
Similar trends here. I also wonder if Dioceses have reduced their funding for these endeavors. Annual reports only tell part of the story. Also, they don't fund schools run by holy orders, one of which I attended. Mine closed down years ago, but I wonder if they're experiencing the same impact as parochial schools.
Interestingly, I've been watching as Catholic homeschool hybrid efforts expand, like Chesterton and Regina Caeli Academy. They're certainly a more affordable way to approach a Catholic education, although there are drawbacks to lay Catholic parents running the ship.
What kinds of drawbacks? I was actually invited to teach for my local affiliate of Regina Coeli Academy, but I had to take a pass on that right now. Even as a traditional Catholic homeschooler, some of my methods are a bit unconventional. For instance, in our study of 20th-century US history, we discussed not only Rosa Parks, but her associations with the Highlander School in Tennessee, and we devoted time to discussing Malcolm X (in fact, we did a whole class session on him), the Black Panthers, Paul Robeson, Langston Hughes, and in the 1960s, Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman (whom I heard speak in person at my university, I sat not ten feet from him), and what a s***show the 1968 Democratic Convention turned out to be. Among right-of-center Catholic homeschoolers, I'd be labeled a communist. So no, I don't think Regina Coeli Academy and I would gee-haw with each other. Oh, and we also studied Catholic social doctrine using Fr Dominique Bourmand's (SSPX, requiescat in pace) short book on the subject. So as you can see, we're all over the place. Your post actually spells out the drawbacks. If parents come at you with clutched pearls in one hand and a Thomas Sowell manifesto in the other, ideally there would be a priest to sort it all out and reiterate Church teaching. The vast majority of level-headed priests would allow you to continue teaching your lessons on civil rights. I, too, was invited to teach at a Regina Caeli and declined for reasons similar to yours. A solid priest needs to have my back before I set foot into a classroom governed by lay Catholics. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 21, 2023 2:15:19 GMT
What kinds of drawbacks? I was actually invited to teach for my local affiliate of Regina Coeli Academy, but I had to take a pass on that right now. Even as a traditional Catholic homeschooler, some of my methods are a bit unconventional. For instance, in our study of 20th-century US history, we discussed not only Rosa Parks, but her associations with the Highlander School in Tennessee, and we devoted time to discussing Malcolm X (in fact, we did a whole class session on him), the Black Panthers, Paul Robeson, Langston Hughes, and in the 1960s, Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman (whom I heard speak in person at my university, I sat not ten feet from him), and what a s***show the 1968 Democratic Convention turned out to be. Among right-of-center Catholic homeschoolers, I'd be labeled a communist. So no, I don't think Regina Coeli Academy and I would gee-haw with each other. Oh, and we also studied Catholic social doctrine using Fr Dominique Bourmand's (SSPX, requiescat in pace) short book on the subject. So as you can see, we're all over the place. Your post actually spells out the drawbacks. If parents come at you with clutched pearls in one hand and a Thomas Sowell manifesto in the other, ideally there would be a priest to sort it all out and reiterate Church teaching. The vast majority of level-headed priests would allow you to continue teaching your lessons on civil rights. I, too, was invited to teach at a Regina Caeli and declined for reasons similar to yours. A solid priest needs to have my back before I set foot into a classroom governed by lay Catholics. I'd teach from the Thomas Sowell manifesto too --- we look at all sides of an issue in our school. Don't know what we'd do with the pearls. |
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 21, 2023 15:40:08 GMT
No throwing them before farm animals! When we did the US Civil Rights era in school the teacher asked us to play devil's advocate and argue for and against repealing laws such as miscegenation and segregation. Someone would likely go crazy about this nowadays but this was a common approach of the era. Our history and English teachers tended to use it quite a lot. Our English teacher used it a lot with 'Coriolanus' and made us discuss topics such as 'Is patriotism always a virtue?' and things like that. Which are questions appropriate to that play. He expected his students to be using the library regularly from age fourteen onwards and footnoting work and providing a bibliography. If you didn't do that he automatically marked your work down by one grade. This was well above what the curriculum demanded but because he had a stellar reputation as a teacher the school supported him. He was not happy if you didn't address numerous sides of a question when composing work.
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Post by ralfy on Dec 22, 2023 0:02:47 GMT
Reminds me of Hirsch's book on cultural literacy. He referred to two examples illustrating the level of discourse in the past: men who barely received primary school education writing eloquent letters to their loved ones during the Civil War, and the Black Panthers issuing declarations unconsciously borrowing from the Declaration of Independence and other documents which they and others read and studied in public school.
He mentioned that by the 1980s the average student could barely say something about the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, and the two world wars. Another book mentioned that similar happened to adults, most of whom could barely say something about the Vietnam War which ended only a few years earlier.
Finally, in one thread about Bible translations, there's one reference to a study arguing that the ave. reading level of U.S. adults is around Grades 7 and 8.
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Post by blackforest on Dec 22, 2023 4:23:04 GMT
Your post actually spells out the drawbacks. If parents come at you with clutched pearls in one hand and a Thomas Sowell manifesto in the other, ideally there would be a priest to sort it all out and reiterate Church teaching. The vast majority of level-headed priests would allow you to continue teaching your lessons on civil rights. I, too, was invited to teach at a Regina Caeli and declined for reasons similar to yours. A solid priest needs to have my back before I set foot into a classroom governed by lay Catholics. I'd teach from the Thomas Sowell manifesto too --- we look at all sides of an issue in our school. Don't know what we'd do with the pearls. LOL! Agreed! But I'm not sure they'd see it that way! (FTR, I've read two of Sowell's books - mixed reviews).
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 22, 2023 6:17:46 GMT
No throwing them before farm animals! When we did the US Civil Rights era in school the teacher asked us to play devil's advocate and argue for and against repealing laws such as miscegenation and segregation. Someone would likely go crazy about this nowadays but this was a common approach of the era. Our history and English teachers tended to use it quite a lot. Our English teacher used it a lot with 'Coriolanus' and made us discuss topics such as 'Is patriotism always a virtue?' and things like that. Which are questions appropriate to that play. He expected his students to be using the library regularly from age fourteen onwards and footnoting work and providing a bibliography. If you didn't do that he automatically marked your work down by one grade. This was well above what the curriculum demanded but because he had a stellar reputation as a teacher the school supported him. He was not happy if you didn't address numerous sides of a question when composing work. You have to be able to see all sides of an issue, to understand the arguments in all sides' favor, and to be able to refute them. It's also helpful to be able to empathize, without agreeing, with "the other guy". For instance, if you don't view the unborn child, at Stage of Development X, as truly a human being, and/or if you see being able to take one life to save another as a legitimate tactic, you're going to see abortion differently, than if you view the unborn child as having an immortal soul at some point very soon after conception (or even at that very instant). Some people see "the end justifies the means" as an acceptable moral principle, or to be more exact, "some means become justified depending upon how needful the end is". Some do not. And edge-case moral dilemmas can be very useful in clarifying values and finding, as I always say, "the least (or less) bad option where there are no good options". Is it sinful to send a train down a track with one person tied to it, when the only alternative is to let the train hurtle over a cliff with 100 people on it? If that person on the train track is your mother? The one doctor in the world who is on the cusp of finding a cure for HIV? Charles Manson or Ted Bundy? If there are two trains and you can only save one? If one train has 100 people with X characteristic in it, and the other train has 100 people with Y characteristic? 100 babies versus 100 women of child-bearing age? 100 Catholics versus 100 non-Catholics? 100 baptized people versus 100 unbaptized ones? 100 people of your ethnicity versus 100 people who are not of your ethnicity? 100 people of subnormal intelligence versus 100 doctors who are working on a cure for cancer and have knowledge no one else does? You could build an entire semester's ethics and morality class around this single dilemma and how to resolve it. You had an excellent teacher. |
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