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Post by homeschooldad on Apr 18, 2021 4:15:40 GMT
homeschooldad Well if we see the Liturgy implemented according to the desires of the Council, we'd see the novus ordo operating like a latin mass, but with far more lay involvement and more prayers in the vernacular. That would certainly be a huge improvement, one that I think most Catholics could live with. This very well could be. In all of the years I have been advocating for the Traditional Latin Mass, my view has been not so much that the Novus Ordo is something "bad" or defective, but that the TLM is so splendid and represents the patrimony of centuries, and is not something that should have been summarily jettisoned, nor should it be forgotten or allowed to slip out of usage. I may soon be in circumstances where I can assist at the TLM exclusively for Sunday Mass, and I am deeply thankful for this.
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Post by farronwolf on Apr 25, 2021 3:46:04 GMT
Since the thread is already derailed, I just want to jump in with a couple of questions and comments.
My understanding is that Latin was adopted early in the Church history because it was a "universal" language which was understood by all priests, bishops, etc, among learned people. The Church once Latin was adopted, continued with it as the official language of the Church, so a priest could say Mass anywhere, any country the same.
How long does it take a priest to finish his schooling now? How much time would be added to that education if the priest was required to actually be fluent in Latin, not just able to say a Mass in Latin, but fluent, as in sitting down and writing a letter or having a conversation in Latin?
I would guess based on all the new seminarians and priests I have seen come through during my years, most of them would not be fluent in Latin to any real extent. Could they say the Mass in Latin, probably, but would they really know what they were saying?
To me, if a Priest doesn't know exactly what he is saying fluently in Latin, they would be doing little more praying than when I listen to Latin and don't have much of a clue as to what is being "prayed"
So if all of the sudden we simply all go back to Latin for all Masses, how many of the priest would be completely lost, much less the parishioners. Just food for thought.
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Post by Beryllos on Apr 25, 2021 5:17:47 GMT
Wow! This thread that I started over 4 years ago has grown old. Its hair is thin and white, its vision is dimming, and now it is losing its memory. Could anyone recommend an assisted living home where it can safely live out its last days?
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Post by AgnusDei on Apr 25, 2021 11:02:06 GMT
I believe I see where this forum is going. Some threads, regardless of their age, or topic, devolve into EF/OF arguments. Maybe a separate sub-forum for thus topic only. Dominus vobiscum
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Post by katy777 on May 12, 2021 16:48:54 GMT
We just went to sacistry and then altar Then we got assignments.. Front, back, Blood of Christ and Choir.
We received near altar.
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Post by homeschooldad on May 12, 2021 18:39:08 GMT
Since the thread is already derailed, I just want to jump in with a couple of questions and comments. My understanding is that Latin was adopted early in the Church history because it was a "universal" language which was understood by all priests, bishops, etc, among learned people. The Church once Latin was adopted, continued with it as the official language of the Church, so a priest could say Mass anywhere, any country the same. How long does it take a priest to finish his schooling now? How much time would be added to that education if the priest was required to actually be fluent in Latin, not just able to say a Mass in Latin, but fluent, as in sitting down and writing a letter or having a conversation in Latin? I would guess based on all the new seminarians and priests I have seen come through during my years, most of them would not be fluent in Latin to any real extent. Could they say the Mass in Latin, probably, but would they really know what they were saying? To me, if a Priest doesn't know exactly what he is saying fluently in Latin, they would be doing little more praying than when I listen to Latin and don't have much of a clue as to what is being "prayed" So if all of the sudden we simply all go back to Latin for all Masses, how many of the priest would be completely lost, much less the parishioners. Just food for thought. It does not take conversational fluency in Latin to know what is being said in the traditional (EF) missal. I am pretty sure that, at one point, seminarians were expected to know Latin well enough, to follow (and even ask questions in) theology classes that were taught entirely in the language. That would be pretty fluent. I have to think that any priest who has had two years of Latin (and that is not asking all that much), would understand Latin well enough to understand the traditional missal, the breviary, the book of traditional Latin blessings, and so on.
Through years of my higher education not having been nearly as rigorous as it should have been --- laziness and low expectations --- and through my not having been a diligent enough student to seek out the "hard classes" (though I must say in my defense that I never received any pass/fail credit, I refused to let my GPA be "ginned up" in that fashion), I never managed to study Latin formally in a classroom situation. Given that it was freely available to me, that was pretty pathetic. ("Do as I say, not as I do" comes into play here.) Yet I have picked up enough Latin by osmosis, through over 30 years of repeated exposure to the very same things, that I pretty much can understand the missal, and the Scripture readings, without relying upon a translation. The missal itself is not extremely complicated Latin. (In all brutal honesty, I rely somewhat on "knowing the story they're talking about" with regard to Scripture --- I've read the entire Bible, all seventy-two books, word-for-word, in the Douay, as well as much of the KJV NT, many parts of it several times --- so maybe I'm kind of cheating there.) I have to think a priest who had been even a mediocre Latin student could do likewise. The pronunciation is not difficult once you get the hang of it.
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