|
Post by katy777 on Sept 30, 2021 23:23:18 GMT
I think the Vatican put solar panels under Pope Benedict.
|
|
|
Post by homeschooldad on Sept 30, 2021 23:53:44 GMT
I think the Vatican put solar panels under Pope Benedict. He must get pretty hot sometimes. Maybe that's why he resigned.
But he's German, he might just shrug his shoulders and say "das Wetter ist was es ist". (I don't know how idiomatic that would be, but that's the traditional German mindset.)
|
|
|
Post by jimg on Oct 2, 2021 18:02:43 GMT
I like air conditioning during a Kansas summer.
|
|
|
Post by homeschooldad on Oct 2, 2021 18:59:12 GMT
I like air conditioning during a Kansas summer. I have only spent one night of my life in Kansas, that an overnight stop in Topeka on a cross-country road trip, and that was during the early fall, so I'll take your word for it. But people in Kansas did without AC for a long time.
I'd like to find ways to minimize the need for AC in one's life, but where I live, I'm sure, gets quite a bit hotter than Kansas (southeastern US). They used to build houses down here elevated off the ground, constructed in such a way that cool airflow was maximized. Now, they just plunk down "whatever, wherever", and rely upon AC to make it bearable. The house I live in now, is basically hermetically sealed, and I would have to retro-fit screens into the windows, to have anything other than artificially circulated and cooled air. They do make portable screens for such purposes, but they are cumbersome.
I like cooler weather myself. People, however, are not moving from Charlotte and Atlanta, to Pittsburgh and Syracuse, no, it's the other way around. If it weren't for AC, such relocation, even in search of more and better jobs, would be a less viable proposition.
This is one example of where I largely agree with Pope Francis on a matter of secular and temporal prudence, which has nothing but a tangential connection to doctrine and morality.
|
|
|
Post by ralfy on Oct 3, 2021 2:09:07 GMT
According to the WB and others, as of 2015 up to 70 pct of human beings live on less than $10 daily. (That's not less than $10 per hour but less than $10 a day.) That means the world poverty rate is around 70 pct: air conditioners aren't the only things they lack.
According to the UN, something like 60 pct of personal consumption of energy and material resources involves only around 30 pct of the world population. That means some of the middle class are consuming at rates that are three times higher than what would be allocated to them if biocapacity is divided evenly among the world population.
The reason for this is that industrialization involves tremendous amounts of energy and material resources to be maintained. Something like 70 pct of mining operations, up to 50 pct of manufacturing, and a sizable bulk of shipping involve oil (which is why the world consumes almost 100 million barrels a day; that's not a year but per day; the U.S., which only has around 5 pct of the world's population, needs to consume up to 20 million barrels), and not just to operate but also to make air conditioners, as well as things like computers to access this forum, and many things that the 70 pct need, from medicine to processed food (which involves extensive mechanized agriculture, which in turn has lots of fuel and petrochemical inputs) to construction materials.
That means even a lifestyle that looks simple and off the grid, like a regular home in a regular town in an industrialized country, or even a small apartment in a regular city in the same country, can require extensive amounts of energy and material resources. For example, just think of the supply chains (the process of raw materials and components passed from business to business) needed to manufacture and deliver things like solar panels: they involve extensive chains across thousands of miles and dozens of countries, with lots of oil inputs.
Meanwhile, the other 30 pct rely on more from the 70 pct to earn and spend more because their own wages and returns on investment are dependent on increasing productivity. Most of that 70 pct want to earn and spend more are have been for the past three decades, and their goal is to be part of the 30 pct.
Some ignoramuses I talk to say, "Sorry, but that's not going to happen. People will have to accept the fact that most will be poor and those of us who are lucky will remain well-off." Unfortunately, that's not how capitalist systems work: in order to keep your job, you have to be more productive each time, and that means making and selling more. Even if you're not involved in business (e.g., you're a medical doctor), the only way you can maintain your middle class lifestyle is to have more than enough paying patients. Guess what they do for a living?
That drive for productivity as part of competition and to increase industrialization worldwide is one of the reasons why the global economy has been changing considerably. By the early 1980s, the U.S. was the main trading partner of most countries. Today, it's China, and it's part of over forty countries that are growing economically, such as Brazil, Russia, India, and South Africa (together with China, making up BRICS) and many other countries in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas. In the near future, they will be taking over the world economy.
For the Church, they are also the main source of membership. Around a century ago, something like a quarter of bishops came from these regions. Now, it's the other way round, which is why the current Pope is from the Americas. Perhaps the next one will be from Asia or Africa.
The same Church also relies on more donations to cover their own operating costs, and that requires more prosperity. Even populations have to go up in increase chances of more becoming members of the clergy and other Church personnel.
Thus, we have a world population that continues to grow even with lower birth rates, demand for resources per person growing, a world that remains physically limited, and resource availability threatened by the same physical limitations plus environmental damage brought about by use of the same resources.
|
|
|
Post by homeschooldad on Oct 3, 2021 3:25:47 GMT
According to the WB and others, as of 2015 up to 70 pct of human beings live on less than $10 daily. (That's not less than $10 per hour but less than $10 a day.) That means the world poverty rate is around 70 pct: air conditioners aren't the only things they lack. According to the UN, something like 60 pct of personal consumption of energy and material resources involves only around 30 pct of the world population. That means some of the middle class are consuming at rates that are three times higher than what would be allocated to them if biocapacity is divided evenly among the world population. The reason for this is that industrialization involves tremendous amounts of energy and material resources to be maintained. Something like 70 pct of mining operations, up to 50 pct of manufacturing, and a sizable bulk of shipping involve oil (which is why the world consumes almost 100 million barrels a day; that's not a year but per day; the U.S., which only has around 5 pct of the world's population, needs to consume up to 20 million barrels), and not just to operate but also to make air conditioners, as well as things like computers to access this forum, and many things that the 70 pct need, from medicine to processed food (which involves extensive mechanized agriculture, which in turn has lots of fuel and petrochemical inputs) to construction materials. That means even a lifestyle that looks simple and off the grid, like a regular home in a regular town in an industrialized country, or even a small apartment in a regular city in the same country, can require extensive amounts of energy and material resources. For example, just think of the supply chains (the process of raw materials and components passed from business to business) needed to manufacture and deliver things like solar panels: they involve extensive chains across thousands of miles and dozens of countries, with lots of oil inputs. Meanwhile, the other 30 pct rely on more from the 70 pct to earn and spend more because their own wages and returns on investment are dependent on increasing productivity. Most of that 70 pct want to earn and spend more are have been for the past three decades, and their goal is to be part of the 30 pct. Some ignoramuses I talk to say, "Sorry, but that's not going to happen. People will have to accept the fact that most will be poor and those of us who are lucky will remain well-off." Unfortunately, that's not how capitalist systems work: in order to keep your job, you have to be more productive each time, and that means making and selling more. Even if you're not involved in business (e.g., you're a medical doctor), the only way you can maintain your middle class lifestyle is to have more than enough paying patients. Guess what they do for a living? That drive for productivity as part of competition and to increase industrialization worldwide is one of the reasons why the global economy has been changing considerably. By the early 1980s, the U.S. was the main trading partner of most countries. Today, it's China, and it's part of over forty countries that are growing economically, such as Brazil, Russia, India, and South Africa (together with China, making up BRICS) and many other countries in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas. In the near future, they will be taking over the world economy. For the Church, they are also the main source of membership. Around a century ago, something like a quarter of bishops came from these regions. Now, it's the other way round, which is why the current Pope is from the Americas. Perhaps the next one will be from Asia or Africa. The same Church also relies on more donations to cover their own operating costs, and that requires more prosperity. Even populations have to go up in increase chances of more becoming members of the clergy and other Church personnel. Thus, we have a world population that continues to grow even with lower birth rates, demand for resources per person growing, a world that remains physically limited, and resource availability threatened by the same physical limitations plus environmental damage brought about by use of the same resources.
This is an excellent commentary. The average middle-class American lives better than a king such as Charlemagne would have in the year 800 AD. The only thing that has remained constant, is that the mineral springs at Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) are the same now, as they were then. I've visited them and I fully understand why Charlemagne was so fond of them. They have incredible healing and relaxing powers. And he did not have the advantages of modern medicine, electricity, instant information, and an endless supply of healthful food in great variety.
I would just note, that the Holy Father having been born in the Americas, was solely an accident of birth. He is full-blooded Italian, born to immigrants to the New World. It is similar to the son or grandson of English immigrants to Canada (think Mike Myers) growing up to become an Anglican priest and then Archbishop of Canterbury. There is nothing about him, aside from citizenship and possibly some aspects of his cultural outlook, that isn't totally Italian. (Italian and Spanish are so similar to one another, as to be almost mutually intelligible in basic conversation.)
|
|
|
Post by ralfy on Oct 3, 2021 23:52:11 GMT
According to the WB and others, as of 2015 up to 70 pct of human beings live on less than $10 daily. (That's not less than $10 per hour but less than $10 a day.) That means the world poverty rate is around 70 pct: air conditioners aren't the only things they lack. According to the UN, something like 60 pct of personal consumption of energy and material resources involves only around 30 pct of the world population. That means some of the middle class are consuming at rates that are three times higher than what would be allocated to them if biocapacity is divided evenly among the world population. The reason for this is that industrialization involves tremendous amounts of energy and material resources to be maintained. Something like 70 pct of mining operations, up to 50 pct of manufacturing, and a sizable bulk of shipping involve oil (which is why the world consumes almost 100 million barrels a day; that's not a year but per day; the U.S., which only has around 5 pct of the world's population, needs to consume up to 20 million barrels), and not just to operate but also to make air conditioners, as well as things like computers to access this forum, and many things that the 70 pct need, from medicine to processed food (which involves extensive mechanized agriculture, which in turn has lots of fuel and petrochemical inputs) to construction materials. That means even a lifestyle that looks simple and off the grid, like a regular home in a regular town in an industrialized country, or even a small apartment in a regular city in the same country, can require extensive amounts of energy and material resources. For example, just think of the supply chains (the process of raw materials and components passed from business to business) needed to manufacture and deliver things like solar panels: they involve extensive chains across thousands of miles and dozens of countries, with lots of oil inputs. Meanwhile, the other 30 pct rely on more from the 70 pct to earn and spend more because their own wages and returns on investment are dependent on increasing productivity. Most of that 70 pct want to earn and spend more are have been for the past three decades, and their goal is to be part of the 30 pct. Some ignoramuses I talk to say, "Sorry, but that's not going to happen. People will have to accept the fact that most will be poor and those of us who are lucky will remain well-off." Unfortunately, that's not how capitalist systems work: in order to keep your job, you have to be more productive each time, and that means making and selling more. Even if you're not involved in business (e.g., you're a medical doctor), the only way you can maintain your middle class lifestyle is to have more than enough paying patients. Guess what they do for a living? That drive for productivity as part of competition and to increase industrialization worldwide is one of the reasons why the global economy has been changing considerably. By the early 1980s, the U.S. was the main trading partner of most countries. Today, it's China, and it's part of over forty countries that are growing economically, such as Brazil, Russia, India, and South Africa (together with China, making up BRICS) and many other countries in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas. In the near future, they will be taking over the world economy. For the Church, they are also the main source of membership. Around a century ago, something like a quarter of bishops came from these regions. Now, it's the other way round, which is why the current Pope is from the Americas. Perhaps the next one will be from Asia or Africa. The same Church also relies on more donations to cover their own operating costs, and that requires more prosperity. Even populations have to go up in increase chances of more becoming members of the clergy and other Church personnel. Thus, we have a world population that continues to grow even with lower birth rates, demand for resources per person growing, a world that remains physically limited, and resource availability threatened by the same physical limitations plus environmental damage brought about by use of the same resources.
This is an excellent commentary. The average middle-class American lives better than a king such as Charlemagne would have in the year 800 AD. The only thing that has remained constant, is that the mineral springs at Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) are the same now, as they were then. I've visited them and I fully understand why Charlemagne was so fond of them. They have incredible healing and relaxing powers. And he did not have the advantages of modern medicine, electricity, instant information, and an endless supply of healthful food in great variety.
I would just note, that the Holy Father having been born in the Americas, was solely an accident of birth. He is full-blooded Italian, born to immigrants to the New World. It is similar to the son or grandson of English immigrants to Canada (think Mike Myers) growing up to become an Anglican priest and then Archbishop of Canterbury. There is nothing about him, aside from citizenship and possibly some aspects of his cultural outlook, that isn't totally Italian. (Italian and Spanish are so similar to one another, as to be almost mutually intelligible in basic conversation.)
Mineral springs, together with many other things, come and go because of pollution and climate change.
Do it the other way round: he is the son of Italian immigrants, but he is a native of Argentina.
|
|
|
Post by homeschooldad on Oct 4, 2021 12:08:44 GMT
This is an excellent commentary. The average middle-class American lives better than a king such as Charlemagne would have in the year 800 AD. The only thing that has remained constant, is that the mineral springs at Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) are the same now, as they were then. I've visited them and I fully understand why Charlemagne was so fond of them. They have incredible healing and relaxing powers. And he did not have the advantages of modern medicine, electricity, instant information, and an endless supply of healthful food in great variety.
I would just note, that the Holy Father having been born in the Americas, was solely an accident of birth. He is full-blooded Italian, born to immigrants to the New World. It is similar to the son or grandson of English immigrants to Canada (think Mike Myers) growing up to become an Anglican priest and then Archbishop of Canterbury. There is nothing about him, aside from citizenship and possibly some aspects of his cultural outlook, that isn't totally Italian. (Italian and Spanish are so similar to one another, as to be almost mutually intelligible in basic conversation.)
Mineral springs, together with many other things, come and go because of pollution and climate change.
Do it the other way round: he is the son of Italian immigrants, but he is a native of Argentina.
WRT your first point, could be, but the forces that cause the springs to be there in the first place, subterranean thermal factors, haven't changed much in 1200 years. (If one is a "young earth creationist", which I am not, though neither can I say it is impossible, my assertion might be open to debate. There are YECs who maintain that the earth was covered by a water canopy prior to the Flood, that it never rained, and that water came to the earth from subterranean springs. Yes, I know, it sounded strange to me too, and still does.)
WRT the second point, the Pope is "both/and". He is both Italian and Argentinian. I think it's fair to say that his upbringing at home was strongly Italian-influenced, and Argentina is heavily Italian. Many second- and even third-generation immigrants identify very much with their ancestral heritage. "Melting pot" societies often fail to extinguish national identities in favor of an amalgamated one. Even though it is many generations in the past, I view myself as a Briton and a European transplanted into the Western Hemisphere by an accident of birth, and possessing a certain citizenship (as well as certain cultural assumptions) though admittedly this is a minority view, American society doesn't encourage people of my heritage to remember it and keep alive the memory. Other nationalities, by comparison, can be extremely assertive about these things. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.
|
|
|
Post by katy777 on Oct 4, 2021 18:43:01 GMT
I never had a/c growing up at home. You deal.
I never noticed.
|
|
|
Post by ralfy on Oct 5, 2021 1:41:29 GMT
Mineral springs, together with many other things, come and go because of pollution and climate change.
Do it the other way round: he is the son of Italian immigrants, but he is a native of Argentina.
WRT your first point, could be, but the forces that cause the springs to be there in the first place, subterranean thermal factors, haven't changed much in 1200 years. (If one is a "young earth creationist", which I am not, though neither can I say it is impossible, my assertion might be open to debate. There are YECs who maintain that the earth was covered by a water canopy prior to the Flood, that it never rained, and that water came to the earth from subterranean springs. Yes, I know, it sounded strange to me too, and still does.)
WRT the second point, the Pope is "both/and". He is both Italian and Argentinian. I think it's fair to say that his upbringing at home was strongly Italian-influenced, and Argentina is heavily Italian. Many second- and even third-generation immigrants identify very much with their ancestral heritage. "Melting pot" societies often fail to extinguish national identities in favor of an amalgamated one. Even though it is many generations in the past, I view myself as a Briton and a European transplanted into the Western Hemisphere by an accident of birth, and possessing a certain citizenship (as well as certain cultural assumptions) though admittedly this is a minority view, American society doesn't encourage people of my heritage to remember it and keep alive the memory. Other nationalities, by comparison, can be extremely assertive about these things. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.
Increasing amounts of fresh water resources worldwide are being polluted because of factories, etc. Don't be obsessed with mineral springs as there's more to the earth when it comes to resources and energy, not to mention human needs.
The Pope is Argentinian, not Italian. Stop confusing a person's ancestral heritage with his citizenship.
|
|
|
Post by homeschooldad on Oct 5, 2021 13:28:22 GMT
WRT your first point, could be, but the forces that cause the springs to be there in the first place, subterranean thermal factors, haven't changed much in 1200 years. (If one is a "young earth creationist", which I am not, though neither can I say it is impossible, my assertion might be open to debate. There are YECs who maintain that the earth was covered by a water canopy prior to the Flood, that it never rained, and that water came to the earth from subterranean springs. Yes, I know, it sounded strange to me too, and still does.)
WRT the second point, the Pope is "both/and". He is both Italian and Argentinian. I think it's fair to say that his upbringing at home was strongly Italian-influenced, and Argentina is heavily Italian. Many second- and even third-generation immigrants identify very much with their ancestral heritage. "Melting pot" societies often fail to extinguish national identities in favor of an amalgamated one. Even though it is many generations in the past, I view myself as a Briton and a European transplanted into the Western Hemisphere by an accident of birth, and possessing a certain citizenship (as well as certain cultural assumptions) though admittedly this is a minority view, American society doesn't encourage people of my heritage to remember it and keep alive the memory. Other nationalities, by comparison, can be extremely assertive about these things. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.
Increasing amounts of fresh water resources worldwide are being polluted because of factories, etc. Don't be obsessed with mineral springs as there's more to the earth when it comes to resources and energy, not to mention human needs.
The Pope is Argentinian, not Italian. Stop confusing a person's ancestral heritage with his citizenship.
Difference of opinion here. I think people are entitled to claim any patrimony and heritage to which they have a connection, regardless of their citizenship. You seem to imply that there is a binary, that if you are a citizen of a country, "that's what you are", "that's all you are", ancestry and heritage notwithstanding. I suppose dual citizenship would, using your criteria, allow a person to claim "both/and".
We may just have to agree to disagree on this matter. It would come as a surprise to many people, that they should not refer to themselves in accord with their ancestral heritage, and that others may not refer to them in this fashion.
|
|
|
Post by ralfy on Oct 6, 2021 1:44:41 GMT
Increasing amounts of fresh water resources worldwide are being polluted because of factories, etc. Don't be obsessed with mineral springs as there's more to the earth when it comes to resources and energy, not to mention human needs.
The Pope is Argentinian, not Italian. Stop confusing a person's ancestral heritage with his citizenship.
Difference of opinion here. I think people are entitled to claim any patrimony and heritage to which they have a connection, regardless of their citizenship. You seem to imply that there is a binary, that if you are a citizen of a country, "that's what you are", "that's all you are", ancestry and heritage notwithstanding. I suppose dual citizenship would, using your criteria, allow a person to claim "both/and".
We may just have to agree to disagree on this matter. It would come as a surprise to many people, that they should not refer to themselves in accord with their ancestral heritage, and that others may not refer to them in this fashion.
Pope Francis was born and raised in Argentina, not in Italy.
He's also not a dual citizen.
|
|