joeg
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Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Oct 16, 2021 1:13:37 GMT
I came across the term "noble lie" in a tweet and talks by the inventor of the core technology for the mRNA vaccines and former medical school professor, Dr. Robert Malone. An excerpt: 9) There is a concerted effort to suppress information and dissent in support of the noble lie
10) the noble lie is-
a. we have to reach herd immunity for economic recovery and to minimize death and disability
b. these genetic vaccines are the only path available to herd immunity
c. these genetic vaccines are perfectly safe
Each of these statements are demonstrably false.
In this tweet Malone presents some of the history of the "noble lie" by the US government about vaccines. In this several minute segment Malone discusses some of the history of the "noble lie" in the writings of Plato and how it has been used during during the pandemic. youtu.be/nYkUePQMfkE?t=7006Should your doctor be punished if he/she does not tell you the noble lie? Malone says in some parts of the world a doctor could be sent to a mental hospital for discussing vaccine safety and C19 outpatient treatments. Obviously Dr. Malone is not an "anti-vaxxer!" These mRNA vaccines are part of his professional legacy. When he wrote his first patent application related to mRNA vaccines he was working for the Salk institute while polio vaccine inventor, J. Salk was still there. Some, including Malone, are concerned that the noble lie policy is short sighted and over the long term could make people unnecessarily hesitant about other vaccines.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 16, 2021 2:32:28 GMT
Any lie, whether "noble" or not, is ultimately a distortion of what other people will be led to believe is true, IOW, "playing God" in a sense, trying to establish a "truth" where there is none.
I will grant, though, that much the same thing happens when one uses a mental reservation, or omits details, to deceive in the name of a good end. The other person is being led to believe that the "truth" is something other than what it is, and we are taking advantage of ambiguity, amphibology, and, quite frankly, the other guy not being swift enough to interpret our words in anything other than the usual sense. That, too, is manipulation of the other person's perception of the truth.
Non-Catholics typically don't "have their ears up" to understand that the Catholic using a mental reservation, is "telling the truth in a creative way", and they just take our words at their literal, commonly understood face value. But at least it's not a lie.
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Post by tth1 on Oct 17, 2021 13:10:38 GMT
You ask if the 'Noble Lie' is acceptable. On what basis do you believe what Robert Malone claims? He seems to be a liar himself. He claims he invented the mRNA technology that has been used in the development of some of the COVID-19 vaccines. However, there is no evidence that he was its sole inventor or even played any role in its invention.
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joeg
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Post by joeg on Oct 18, 2021 0:24:33 GMT
This is really about the "noble lie" in general and Malone's use of the term to describe the US government's vaccine related deception depicted in my previous post. However if you'd like to learn more about Dr. Malone's early role in the development of mRNA vaccine technology you could check out this article at Nature. It includes a pic of Malone's signed notebook about his inventions. www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-wMalone tells the story about those years in this interesting interview. The short 5 minute version starts here. youtu.be/nYkUePQMfkE?t=2065
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Post by ralfy on Oct 18, 2021 2:53:53 GMT
About the reasons for the "noble lie," I don't understand why herd immunity should be avoided. Doesn't the second point contradict the first? And isn't it already known that the vaccines are for emergency use?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 14:07:56 GMT
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Post by tth1 on Oct 19, 2021 16:12:50 GMT
This is really about the "noble lie" in general and Malone's use of the term to describe the US government's vaccine related deception depicted in my previous post. However if you'd like to learn more about Dr. Malone's early role in the development of mRNA vaccine technology you could check out this article at Nature. It includes a pic of Malone's signed notebook about his inventions. www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-wMalone tells the story about those years in this interesting interview. The short 5 minute version starts here. youtu.be/nYkUePQMfkE?t=2065If you had read the full article from the highly-respected journal, Nature, to which you provided a link you will not find them crediting Malone as the person who developed mRNA vaccine technology. His claim is very weak. He did some work on RNA decades ago but he did not go on to develop the mRNA vaccine technology.
You have not shown how Malone's three claims are in any way true regarding herd immunity and the use of vaccines.
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alng
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Post by alng on Oct 19, 2021 16:29:28 GMT
Non-Catholics typically don't "have their ears up" to understand that the Catholic using a mental reservation, is "telling the truth in a creative way", and they just take our words at their literal, commonly understood face value. But at least it's not a lie. Can a Noble Lie be defended as a mental reservation? If you are in court under oath, is it OK to make a mental reservation and thereby bear false witness?
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Post by katy777 on Oct 20, 2021 21:58:03 GMT
An untruth can be twisted to sound like the truth as seen here.
No matter by omission or creative language
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 21, 2021 20:45:59 GMT
The not so noble lie, is that Robert Malone acts as if he knows more and has contributed more than he actually has to vaccines and their effectiveness.
The noble lie which this thread was started on is in fact not a lie at all, so there is no noble lie to debate regarding the OP and the misinformation which he is spreading.
As far as I can imagine, there is nothing noble about lying.
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joeg
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Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Oct 25, 2021 2:58:49 GMT
Dr. Malone received a patent around 1990 for some of his work on mRNA vaccines. He obviously has elite knowledge of mRNA vaccines. Malone was working at the Salk Institute when he made some of his discoveries. He says Polio vaccine inventor, Jonas Salk was still at the institute at the time. Obviously a guy working on vaccine development at such an institute is not an "antivaxer!" Malone has since taught in various medical schools and has done work for the Pentagon on substances to protect against chemical warfare agents. So when a guy with Malone's pedigree is deeply concerned about vaccine related medical ethics we should give him an ear. Malone tweeted that excerpt--seen above--from the 1984 Federal Register: "any possible doubt, whether or not well founded, about the safety of vaccines cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to assure that the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives."So even if the doubt about vaccine safety is well founded it still "cannot be allowed to exist." What if the "nation's public health objective" is to use vaccines to reduce the population of elderly and sickly people of all ages? What if the "nation's public health objective" is to use vaccines to reduce the population growth as was seen in Nigeria some years ago? Their bishops spoke out forcefully against the program that targeted their Catholic young women. www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-13-vaccines-target-blacks-depopulation-science-paper-infertility-chemical-african-women.htmlThis is from a COVID-19 toxicology paper. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100161X Health authorities suggest the reports of death in the VAERS database are mostly coincidental. Should we doubt the safety of the vaccine program when we see this data from VAERS? Should a safe and somewhat effective inexpensive medication be restricted from public use because it discourages vaccine acceptance as in Australia? www.tga.gov.au/media-release/new-restrictions-prescribing-ivermectin-covid-19ivmmeta.com/#fig_fpShould your doctor be punished for not telling you the "noble lie" about vaccines as Malone says is happening in some places. Do you really trust strongly pro-abortion politicians to make good decisions in this matter? At the Nuremburg trials after WW II some Big Pharma execs were prosecuted along with Hitler's godless henchmen. Do you remember what is said about those who forget history? They are bound to repeat it.
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 25, 2021 13:02:39 GMT
Dr. Malone received a patent around 1990 for some of his work on mRNA vaccines. He obviously has elite knowledge of mRNA vaccines. Malone was working at the Salk Institute when he made some of his discoveries. He says Polio vaccine inventor, Jonas Salk was still at the institute at the time. Obviously a guy working on vaccine development at such an institute is not an "antivaxer!" Malone has since taught in various medical schools and has done work for the Pentagon on substances to protect against chemical warfare agents. So when a guy with Malone's pedigree is deeply concerned about vaccine related medical ethics we should give him an ear. Malone tweeted that excerpt--seen above--from the 1984 Federal Register: "any possible doubt, whether or not well founded, about the safety of vaccines cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to assure that the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives."So even if the doubt about vaccine safety is well founded it still "cannot be allowed to exist." What if the "nation's public health objective" is to use vaccines to reduce the population of elderly and sickly people of all ages? What if the "nation's public health objective" is to use vaccines to reduce the population growth as was seen in Nigeria some years ago? Their bishops spoke out forcefully against the program that targeted their Catholic young women. www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-13-vaccines-target-blacks-depopulation-science-paper-infertility-chemical-african-women.htmlThis is from a COVID-19 toxicology paper. www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475002100161X Health authorities suggest the reports of death in the VAERS database are mostly coincidental. Should we doubt the safety of the vaccine program when we see this data from VAERS? Should a safe and somewhat effective inexpensive medication be restricted from public use because it discourages vaccine acceptance as in Australia? www.tga.gov.au/media-release/new-restrictions-prescribing-ivermectin-covid-19ivmmeta.com/#fig_fpShould your doctor be punished for not telling you the "noble lie" about vaccines as Malone says is happening in some places. Do you really trust strongly pro-abortion politicians to make good decisions in this matter? At the Nuremburg trials after WW II some Big Pharma execs were prosecuted along with Hitler's godless henchmen. Do you remember what is said about those who forget history? They are bound to repeat it. You are not the brightest bulb in the box are you? Just because someone worked somewhere when someone else did, doesn't mean a thing. It certainly doesn't mean that person isn't a liar or overstating their contributions to something. In fact bringing up over and over that he worked at X when X was there is a tactic folks use to try to overstate their importance. You do realize that the vaccines were fast tracked under Trump don't you? Remember operation warp speed. I thought he was a pro life politician. Your "what ifs" don't benefit anyone. What if hundreds of thousands, or millions of people could be saved because of the vaccine? There is a real one for you. The folks who are promoting ivermectin are like protestants. There is no basis for their belief in the medicine with actual studies, just as protestants have no basis for their religion. Someone took the truth and adjusted it to fit their needs/wants.
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 28, 2021 1:12:53 GMT
Quote farronwolf: "The folks who are promoting ivermectin are like protestants. There is no basis for their belief in the medicine with actual studies..."
I don't think an honest person with average intelligence could make the statement above after looking at the metanalysis of the Ivermectin studies from around the world. Compare the Ivermectin metanalysis with the metanalysis of the very expensive and widely used drug Remdesivir If you were in the hospital would you prefer Remdesivir or Vitamin D, especially the calcifediol form of D used in the fairly large Nogues randomized trial in Spain. Nogues reported a roughly 60% reduction in death. A list of dozens of drugs and nutraceuticals that have been studied in Covid 19 patients at the link below. Compare the over the counter sleep aid melatonin to Remdesivir.
c19early.com/I suspect the "Noble Lie" includes deceiving the public about helpful older drugs and nutraceuticals in order to promote fear and poor decisions. I certainly hope you took the time to look over the whole article, including analysis, and questions about the so called studies. It is at the bottom if you care to read. ivmmeta.com/According to the recent Nature letter, the current pandemic "provides fertile ground for even poorly evidenced claims of efficacy to be amplified, both in the scientific literature and on social media." "This context," the authors continue, "can lead to the rapid translation of almost any apparently favorable conclusion from a relatively weak trial or set of trials into widespread clinical practice and public policy." For years now, scientists have been pointing this out, and some have been calling for updated standards to the long-accepted practice behind meta analyses. www.sciencealert.com/meta-studies-like-those-on-ivermectin-promote-poorly-done-research-scientists-argue
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Post by tth1 on Oct 28, 2021 18:36:43 GMT
Who publishes this website?
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