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Post by theguvnor on Dec 13, 2023 13:32:23 GMT
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Post by blackforest on Dec 13, 2023 14:14:06 GMT
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 13, 2023 14:32:37 GMT
Totally different class levels. Professor Tolkien's accent in that clip is that of an upper-middle-class British gent of that era with some inflections from areas like Birmingham in there. Mel Smith is doing a parody on the sort of Cockney accent I grew up around, it's not a very convincing one either. For an actual Cockney accent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0FZhLeHy7AMichael Caine is from an area of London close to where I grew up and loads of people had accents like this growing up. Of course Michael later taught Batman everything he knows, but not everything Michael knows.
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Post by tth1 on Dec 14, 2023 15:03:09 GMT
No problem understanding Professor Tolkien but am no stranger to cut glass English accents. Had no problems with the Glawegian laddie but that may be down to having watched too much of Rab C. Nesbitt. I'm sure theguvnor will know who I'm talking about but not sure how I start explaining Rab to our American friends. We also had a family friend who came from the Gorbals, which at the time he was there was a very poor district of Glasgow. Michael Caine was easy but I've heard him a great deal. I do recall as a child holidaying in Scotland. Two local lads got friendly with my brother and I. However, I couldn't understand a word they were saying and didn't know, at first, they were local. I thought, like us, they must have been on holiday and were from abroad. When I asked my dad what he thought they were speaking and he told me English I thought he was making fun out of me. By the end of the holiday we could understand what they were saying.
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Post by tisbearself on Dec 14, 2023 18:35:53 GMT
I understood most of the Tolkien clip except about half the first sentence.
I can usually muddle along but if it's a strong regional accent outside US I might need occasional help. I know when I first saw the Beatles "A Hard Day's Night" and the 80s movie "Letter to Brezhnev" I had a little trouble with the Liverpool accents. I had to watch each movie multiple times to figure it out and also I used a script online for a few difficult parts. Ken Loach's "Kes" with the Welsh accents is completely undecipherable to me in large part.
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 14, 2023 22:46:19 GMT
Those are Yorkshire accents in 'Kes.' They're reet gradely. However, they can be awful clarty to understand if you don't produce the same sounds from your clacker. Ey 'up, you'd need a big mug of tea after some of those sounds. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVis
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Post by homeschooldad on Dec 14, 2023 23:52:57 GMT
Even within the US, I struggle to understand some more rustic English speakers. When in Appalachia, I find some native speakers to be virtually incomprehensible --- a lot of the men mumble and don't move their mouths much --- and I had to watch O Brother, Where Art Thou? with subtitles. No joke. (Ditto for The Full Monty.)
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Post by tisbearself on Dec 15, 2023 2:06:46 GMT
Those are Yorkshire accents in 'Kes.' They're reet gradely. However, they can be awful clarty to understand if you don't produce the same sounds from your clacker. Ey 'up, you'd need a big mug of tea after some of those sounds. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVisThe scene I most remember is the one where a bunch of locals are talking at some pub or union hall about social conditions and it was like they were all speaking Chinese, I couldn't understand a thing.
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Post by ralfy on Dec 15, 2023 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 15, 2023 8:47:30 GMT
And the Jesuit professor would be correct if referencing Middle English onwards. Even Old English has the influence of other languages. There used to be an old comedy show made by Indian comedians in the UK which used to play with this stuff with accents. They had a recurring sketch where instead of 'going for an Indian' (British slang for going for an Indian meal) people would go for an 'English' and order exotic delights such as 'soss and chips' or 'steak and kidney pie.' Half the humour was in them subverting stereotypes. Their waiter was always called by the strange foreign name Kevin or James which they would mispronounce. www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-uEx_hEXAM
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 15, 2023 8:51:50 GMT
The show also had this recurring sketch where an Indian dad tried to prove everyone important in history was India: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWd9a8Ck8UThis has the classic line, 'Twelve men sitting around a table waiting for dinner, where are the women? In the kitchen' when the dad looks at the 'Last Supper.'
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Post by tth1 on Dec 15, 2023 13:44:54 GMT
Those are Yorkshire accents in 'Kes.' They're reet gradely. However, they can be awful clarty to understand if you don't produce the same sounds from your clacker. Ey 'up, you'd need a big mug of tea after some of those sounds. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVisWell that's Yorkshire for thee. As the late Dame Thora Hird once said the best road in Yorkshire is the one to Lancashire.
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 15, 2023 15:02:02 GMT
The late Dame Thora, a much-missed figure from a slightly different era. Hopefully, she and Bill Owen and Peter Sallis are enjoying eternal Summer Wine right now.
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Post by blackforest on Dec 15, 2023 20:00:30 GMT
Totally different class levels. I get that, but either way I'd love Chevy's translator!
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Post by theguvnor on Dec 15, 2023 22:31:22 GMT
Now, this is Cockney and these people all have accents I'd have heard on the streets around me growing up: I can tell you for a certainty for example that the guy with glasses who speaks after the musicians play is from what was then the Jewish section of Bethnal Green as he puts the stress on words in a particular way and there are overtones in his accent you find in the Yiddish used by London's Jews. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjNiTIVNyoM
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