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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 29, 2022 12:39:24 GMT
Yeah I just got a good chuckle out of Roche saying the 1962 Latin Mass is still “available”. Like he hasn’t been knocking himself out to make it unavailable. Plus I thought Shia explained in pretty good depth why he prefers the TLM in his lengthy interview. Not sure what else there is to talk about or find out. Yeah... I was wondering kind of the same thing about what Roche said. I don't think the world would tolerate a white Pope from an English-speaking country, though, so not to worry. That'd be just a bridge too far. (And certainly not an American. We're pretty bad eggs.) |
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 29, 2022 13:57:39 GMT
Yeah I just got a good chuckle out of Roche saying the 1962 Latin Mass is still “available”. Like he hasn’t been knocking himself out to make it unavailable. Plus I thought Shia explained in pretty good depth why he prefers the TLM in his lengthy interview. Not sure what else there is to talk about or find out. Yeah... I was wondering kind of the same thing about what Roche said. I don't think the world would tolerate a white Pope from an English-speaking country, though, so not to worry. That'd be just a bridge too far. (And certainly not an American. We're pretty bad eggs.) Considering that the last 3 Popes were the first ones from outside Italy in hundreds of years, I'd be fine with anybody who wasn't Italian at this point (unless they were promoting dissenting views like the German bishops and Hollerich, or unless they were examples of the Peter Principle like Roche seems to be). It would be interesting to have an asian Pope or a black Pope, as long as it wasn't Cardinal Gregory. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 29, 2022 14:15:33 GMT
Yeah... I was wondering kind of the same thing about what Roche said. I don't think the world would tolerate a white Pope from an English-speaking country, though, so not to worry. That'd be just a bridge too far. (And certainly not an American. We're pretty bad eggs.) Considering that the last 3 Popes were the first ones from outside Italy in hundreds of years, I'd be fine with anybody who wasn't Italian at this point (unless they were promoting dissenting views like the German bishops and Hollerich, or unless they were examples of the Peter Principle like Roche seems to be). It would be interesting to have an asian Pope or a black Pope, as long as it wasn't Cardinal Gregory. I'm sure no pun was intended by using the term "Peter Principle" to discuss whether a cardinal is papabile or not. That was just too delicious for me to let pass without comment. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again, and I'm probably wrong this time, but my "spidey sense" tells me the next Pope is going to be, as I've alluded elsewhere, some boring old Italian nobody's ever heard of before, and that by being more of a caretaker than anything else, he's going to try and put an end to this ¡Hagan lío! business. (Tearing up TC the way Nancy Pelosi tore up those papers after DJT's SOTU address may be too much to hope for, though failing to press the matter the same way the Church failed to press bishops and priests to make Humanae vitae a priority, contrary to what Paul VI asked for, is probably more like it. Either way.) |
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Post by theguvnor on Aug 30, 2022 18:01:21 GMT
Fr. Brendan Hoban is associated with the ACP (Association of Catholic Priests). This is a group with a fair few members but many are older priests like Father Hoban (who is in his mid 70's), it took a neutral stance on the abortion referendum in Ireland in recent years. Fr. Tony Flannery the founder of the ACP has been censured a number of times over his views on ordaining female clergy contraception and homosexuality.
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Post by theguvnor on Aug 30, 2022 18:14:59 GMT
Roche is too new to have such ideas. He's made a number of bumbling mistakes in his short time on the job. From what I have read, the anti-TLM push came from a lot of bishops in continental Europe and particularly some influentials ones in Italy, probably in France too, where a TLM is seen as a dog whistle for all sorts of serious issues that usually don't crop up in the USA. Also, a lot of bishops probably weren't jazzed on the reading of the previous standards as meaning that if 10 people got together at their local parish and demanded a TLM, the bishop was supposed to provide priests and resources to make that happen. I don't have anything against TLM, but it's impractical to push for one at every parish amd frankly, a good many Catholics at parishes don't want it and wouldn't appreciate it if they had it. I'm happy if the diocese just has sufficient TLMs around that there's a reliable. centrally located one or two on Sundays and holy days and maybe even some weekdays that most people don't have to drive 40 or 50 miles to access. It's much easier for me to find a TLM when it's happening every week at the FSSP quasi-parish than some years ago when it seemed to be migrating all over the downtown depending on which church felt like hosting it on a given day (you'd get there and find there was nowhere to park etc). The issues in France you allude to are largely irrelevant in Britain (although you will find some fringe figures who are anti-Semitic but they are outliers) thus we have a Latin Mass in the Parish and no-one is getting excited one way or the other about it. Most attendees are either older Catholics, fairly educated literary types of Catholics or similar. The priest is a former Anglican clergyman who does a Latin Mass once every few weeks and the whole political argy-bargey in Italy and France is something he is obviously well aware of but it doesn't impact the life of the parish. Many of the attendees are black people who are elderly and grew up up hearing the Mass in Latin or elderly Irish or English Catholics. The priest is of the opinion schools should reintroduce Greek and Latin as subjects and pupils should be compelled to learn 100 lines of Latin a week. He's only half-joking about that as well. He's a well-known figure in educational circles here and his view is that education has got far too soft in the UK and needs a degree of rigour reintroduced into it. He would like calculators banned below college level for example. A view my mother-in-law who is a retired maths teacher shares. |
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Post by ralfy on Aug 31, 2022 0:30:45 GMT
FWIW, the Church does have at least a white American as Pope, i.e., Pope Francis is from Argentina, and both parents are Italian immigrants. As for bad eggs, I read that he was also a nightclub bouncer.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 31, 2022 0:47:13 GMT
FWIW, the Church does have at least a white American as Pope, i.e., Pope Francis is from Argentina, and both parents are Italian immigrants. As for bad eggs, I read that he was also a nightclub bouncer. I was clearly using "American" in its colloquial sense of someone from the United States of America. When you ask anyone from outside of Latin America (where estadounidense or norteamericano are used instead) what they would call someone from the USA, they will tell you one thing and one thing only. I am sorry if this is disagreeable to Latin Americans, but the usage has evolved organically and that is just a fact. By "bad eggs", I was being mildly ironic by suggesting tongue-in-cheek that we are such horrible people, that we do not deserve to be liked. Aside from justified resentment over American arrogance (many Americans, especially lesser-educated ones, do not see the rest of the world as worthy of any regard whatsoever, and that's a bad thing) and military exploits (blame the government, not the people), a lot of it is "they hate us because they ain't us". And people risk their lives to get here. Couldn't be too bad. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 31, 2022 0:48:52 GMT
Roche is too new to have such ideas. He's made a number of bumbling mistakes in his short time on the job. From what I have read, the anti-TLM push came from a lot of bishops in continental Europe and particularly some influentials ones in Italy, probably in France too, where a TLM is seen as a dog whistle for all sorts of serious issues that usually don't crop up in the USA. Also, a lot of bishops probably weren't jazzed on the reading of the previous standards as meaning that if 10 people got together at their local parish and demanded a TLM, the bishop was supposed to provide priests and resources to make that happen. I don't have anything against TLM, but it's impractical to push for one at every parish amd frankly, a good many Catholics at parishes don't want it and wouldn't appreciate it if they had it. I'm happy if the diocese just has sufficient TLMs around that there's a reliable. centrally located one or two on Sundays and holy days and maybe even some weekdays that most people don't have to drive 40 or 50 miles to access. It's much easier for me to find a TLM when it's happening every week at the FSSP quasi-parish than some years ago when it seemed to be migrating all over the downtown depending on which church felt like hosting it on a given day (you'd get there and find there was nowhere to park etc). The issues in France you allude to are largely irrelevant in Britain (although you will find some fringe figures who are anti-Semitic but they are outliers) thus we have a Latin Mass in the Parish and no-one is getting excited one way or the other about it. Most attendees are either older Catholics, fairly educated literary types of Catholics or similar. The priest is a former Anglican clergyman who does a Latin Mass once every few weeks and the whole political argy-bargey in Italy and France is something he is obviously well aware of but it doesn't impact the life of the parish. Many of the attendees are black people who are elderly and grew up up hearing the Mass in Latin or elderly Irish or English Catholics. The priest is of the opinion schools should reintroduce Greek and Latin as subjects and pupils should be compelled to learn 100 lines of Latin a week. He's only half-joking about that as well. He's a well-known figure in educational circles here and his view is that education has got far too soft in the UK and needs a degree of rigour reintroduced into it. He would like calculators banned below college level for example. A view my mother-in-law who is a retired maths teacher shares. Sounds like a man after my own heart, I say about 58% seriously and 42% joking. |
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