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Post by theguvnor on Oct 3, 2022 11:58:24 GMT
www.rte.ie/entertainment/2022/1003/1326825-sacheen-littlefeather-who-refused-oscar-for-brando-dies/O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death and overthrown the Devil, and given life to Thy world, do Thou, the same Lord, give rest to the souls of Thy departed servants in a place of brightness, a place of refreshment, a place of repose, where all sickness, sighing, and sorrow have fled away. Pardon every transgression which they have committed, whether by word or deed or thought. For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind; because there is no man who lives yet does not sin, for Thou only art without sin, Thy righteousness is to all eternity, and Thy word is truth. For Thou are the Resurrection, the Life, and the Repose of Thy servants who have fallen asleep, O Christ our God, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, together with Thy Father, who is from everlasting, and Thine all-holy, good, and life-creating Spirit, now and ever unto ages of ages. Amen.
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jcath
Full Member
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Post by jcath on Oct 3, 2022 13:15:05 GMT
Father may may she have everlasting peace. May she be spared and serve you forever in your kingdom. In your name, Jesus amen!
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Post by StellaMaris on Oct 3, 2022 22:14:17 GMT
I have never heard of that event but what a way to make a statement! May she rest in peace. 🙏
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 4, 2022 17:08:05 GMT
Sacheen's statement is connected with the ongoing political demonstrations by AIM at the time. AIM maintained some links with Irish groups at this point and similar groups still do. The whole situation with AIM Was heated and although people are aware of the Civil Right struggle in the black community this is a lesser known struggle - with some very dodgy business going on throughout it on the part of the US govt.
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Post by po18guy on Oct 4, 2022 18:51:51 GMT
Prayers ascending.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 24, 2022 13:59:15 GMT
Unfortunately it appears she was another case of what the US calls a "Pretendian", who was simply a fabulist looking to further her own opportunities. www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Sacheen-Littlefeather-oscar-Native-pretendian-17520648.phpBack when she was appearing at the Oscars, there were quite a few actors and other celebs who lied in similar ways, for example Iron Eyes Cody who was famous for a TV PSA about littering was much later revealed by his sister to be Italian-American. Nowadays I think a person's background would be more scrutinized early on because a large number of cases have cropped up involving high profile individuals who claimed to be part Native American or black when they aren't. |
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 24, 2022 14:45:23 GMT
I've heard conflicting claims regarding this - I was aware as a kid Iron Eyes Cody was just playing a role. By that point people were beginning to question it and he is of course far from the only man or woman who made good money pretending to be a Native American. Cody pops up on a Joni Mitchell album doing 'Native American' chanting - which is quite funny of course in retrospect. There are plenty of famous people who really do have Native American ancestry of course but these people wanted to hook their wagon to a fashionable political cause and seem cool in some cases I'd guess.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 24, 2022 15:06:35 GMT
We also had the case of the author "Forrest Carter" who claimed to be Cherokee (which many people did because the Cherokee had intermarried a lot/ not kept good records and it was an easy claim to make) and wrote bestsellers including "The Outlaw Josey Wales" (later a movie starring Clint Eastwood) and "The Education of Little Tree" which was allegedly a nonfiction memoir of a child being taught life lessons by his Cherokee grandparents. Unfortunately the author, while he might have had some actual Cherokee ancestry, was under his real name a white supremacist politician who founded a KKK chapter and wrote a famous segregation-endorsing speech for George Wallace. He conveniently died just as all this was coming to light. A list of notable "Pretendians" is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretendian#Notable_examples |
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 24, 2022 15:13:40 GMT
Unfortunately it appears she was another case of what the US calls a "Pretendian", who was simply a fabulist looking to further her own opportunities. www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Sacheen-Littlefeather-oscar-Native-pretendian-17520648.phpBack when she was appearing at the Oscars, there were quite a few actors and other celebs who lied in similar ways, for example Iron Eyes Cody who was famous for a TV PSA about littering was much later revealed by his sister to be Italian-American. Nowadays I think a person's background would be more scrutinized early on because a large number of cases have cropped up involving high profile individuals who claimed to be part Native American or black when they aren't. I know that "ranking sins" is disliked by some (even though moral theology manuals do precisely that), but while it is always evil and never fully excusable, there are worse sins than perpetuating a lie about oneself. As the saying goes, it's not as though she killed someone. Especially in the entertainment industry, covering up facts about one's life history, or even outright lying, were stock-in-trade for much of the 20th century. Stars and media personalities felt as though they had to lie about their ethnic origins (Merle Oberon would be one example), adopt British-sounding names in lieu of those that were Italian, Jewish, Slavic, and so on (Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Rita Hayworth, Sandra Dee, and others too numerous to mention), or conceal their homosexuality (Rock Hudson, Liberace, Jim Nabors, and, again, others too numerous to mention). There was also the sad story of Loretta Young making up a legend about her love child with Clark Gable having been adopted by her. There are also those, not necessarily famous people, who concoct an elaborate, and utterly false, story of their life --- Rachel Dolezal comes immediately to mind. (Fun fact, years ago, I had a pen pal who weaved a wild tale about being a South Asian raised on a yacht by Parsees who spoke Gujarati, and being discriminated against because of her race. Turns out, she died a few years ago, I read her obituary, and she had made up about half of it, and wasn't South Asian at all, just a white American Southerner who so strongly identified with Indian culture that she adopted an ethnic name and learned the languages, including Urdu. Another Rachel Dolezal.) May they all rest in peace. |
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 24, 2022 15:24:27 GMT
Unfortunately it appears she was another case of what the US calls a "Pretendian", who was simply a fabulist looking to further her own opportunities. www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Sacheen-Littlefeather-oscar-Native-pretendian-17520648.phpBack when she was appearing at the Oscars, there were quite a few actors and other celebs who lied in similar ways, for example Iron Eyes Cody who was famous for a TV PSA about littering was much later revealed by his sister to be Italian-American. Nowadays I think a person's background would be more scrutinized early on because a large number of cases have cropped up involving high profile individuals who claimed to be part Native American or black when they aren't. I know that "ranking sins" is disliked by some (even though moral theology manuals do precisely that), but while it is always evil and never fully excusable, there are worse sins than perpetuating a lie about oneself. As the saying goes, it's not as though she killed someone. Especially in the entertainment industry, covering up facts about one's life history, or even outright lying, were stock-in-trade for much of the 20th century. Stars and media personalities felt as though they had to lie about their ethnic origins (Merle Oberon would be one example), adopt British-sounding names in lieu of those that were Italian, Jewish, Slavic, and so on (Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Rita Hayworth, Sandra Dee, and others too numerous to mention), or conceal their homosexuality (Rock Hudson, Liberace, Jim Nabors, and, again, others too numerous to mention). There was also the sad story of Loretta Young making up a legend about her love child with Clark Gable having been adopted by her. There are also those, not necessarily famous people, who concoct an elaborate, and utterly false, story of their life --- Rachel Dolezal comes immediately to mind. (Fun fact, years ago, I had a pen pal who weaved a wild tale about being a South Asian raised on a yacht by Parsees who spoke Gujarati, and being discriminated against because of her race. Turns out, she died a few years ago, I read her obituary, and she had made up about half of it, and wasn't South Asian at all, just a white American Southerner who so strongly identified with Indian culture that she adopted an ethnic name and learned the languages, including Urdu. Another Rachel Dolezal.) May they all rest in peace. As I was just posting elsewhere, back in the olden days there was little or no benefit for most people in identifying as an oppressed minority, unless perhaps it was a claim to be related to someone super-famous such as Pocahontas or Sitting Bull. And as you note, in the world of acting, it was not uncommon for people to make up whole new life histories for themselves, no one really cared. Unfortunately, in the decades since the 1960s, there's begun to be real benefits accruing to identifying as an oppressed minority. Such people often get preferential treatment in college admissions, academia, and professional jobs. When a faker gets such a benefit, it's taking that benefit away from an actual minority person. So, while it may have started off as a harmless career advancement move, by the end of Littlefeather's life it had taken on a lot more significance, and by then it's very hard for the person to back off the lies they created, which by that point they might have even talked themselves into believing. There's also some concern about these fakes, before being unmasked, being held up to the culture and even to actual minority people as being some kind of icons or pioneers and then when the truth is revealed that's just more disillusionment for kids who might have looked up to someone or regarded them as brave or a role model. I had a former pastor who mentioned in almost every homily that he thought lying, even "white lies", was the worst sin a person could commit. One reason he thought it was so bad was that it was so common and people didn't think of it as sinful, which to him made it all the more insidious. Granted, there are reasons including childhood trauma and mental illness that people make up lies about themselves, but it is a seriously bad thing to do, and should not be dismissed. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 24, 2022 15:40:00 GMT
I know that "ranking sins" is disliked by some (even though moral theology manuals do precisely that), but while it is always evil and never fully excusable, there are worse sins than perpetuating a lie about oneself. As the saying goes, it's not as though she killed someone. Especially in the entertainment industry, covering up facts about one's life history, or even outright lying, were stock-in-trade for much of the 20th century. Stars and media personalities felt as though they had to lie about their ethnic origins (Merle Oberon would be one example), adopt British-sounding names in lieu of those that were Italian, Jewish, Slavic, and so on (Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Rita Hayworth, Sandra Dee, and others too numerous to mention), or conceal their homosexuality (Rock Hudson, Liberace, Jim Nabors, and, again, others too numerous to mention). There was also the sad story of Loretta Young making up a legend about her love child with Clark Gable having been adopted by her. There are also those, not necessarily famous people, who concoct an elaborate, and utterly false, story of their life --- Rachel Dolezal comes immediately to mind. (Fun fact, years ago, I had a pen pal who weaved a wild tale about being a South Asian raised on a yacht by Parsees who spoke Gujarati, and being discriminated against because of her race. Turns out, she died a few years ago, I read her obituary, and she had made up about half of it, and wasn't South Asian at all, just a white American Southerner who so strongly identified with Indian culture that she adopted an ethnic name and learned the languages, including Urdu. Another Rachel Dolezal.) May they all rest in peace. As I was just posting elsewhere, back in the olden days there was little or no benefit for most people in identifying as an oppressed minority, unless perhaps it was a claim to be related to someone super-famous such as Pocahontas or Sitting Bull. And as you note, in the world of acting, it was not uncommon for people to make up whole new life histories for themselves, no one really cared. Unfortunately, in the decades since the 1960s, there's begun to be real benefits accruing to identifying as an oppressed minority. Such people often get preferential treatment in college admissions, academia, and professional jobs. When a faker gets such a benefit, it's taking that benefit away from an actual minority person. So, while it may have started off as a harmless career advancement move, by the end of Littlefeather's life it had taken on a lot more significance, and by then it's very hard for the person to back off the lies they created, which by that point they might have even talked themselves into believing. There's also some concern about these fakes, before being unmasked, being held up to the culture and even to actual minority people as being some kind of icons or pioneers and then when the truth is revealed that's just more disillusionment for kids who might have looked up to someone or regarded them as brave or a role model. I had a former pastor who mentioned in almost every homily that he thought lying, even "white lies", was the worst sin a person could commit. One reason he thought it was so bad was that it was so common and people didn't think of it as sinful, which to him made it all the more insidious. Granted, there are reasons including childhood trauma and mental illness that people make up lies about themselves, but it is a seriously bad thing to do, and should not be dismissed. I don't dismiss it, and I have never been one to "excuse" sins, but there is parvity of matter where lying is concerned, as well as many shades of gray as regards mental reservations. Where a lie crosses that line from not-so-grave matter, to grave matter and mortal sin given the two other conditions, it is hard to say sometimes. Better not to lie at all. My problem with lying, and maybe this is just me, is that the liar assumes a kind of sovereignty over truth, that "truth is what I say truth is", indeed, that "reality is what I say reality is". Not good. It also seems to me, to be disrespect towards the person being lied to, that the liar is also assuming a kind of sovereignty over how the other person sees reality. Not good either. |
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 24, 2022 17:05:30 GMT
Gray Owl on that list is an odd one - his attempt at passing himself of as Native American caused him to be held in some contempt but his points about conservation and not torturing or hurting animals still have merit. Most of these figures are reasonably well known in the UK. Merle Oberon is an example of the politics of empire of an ugly kind, she had to disguise her ancestry throughout her career. Although many who knew here well personally were well aware of it.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 25, 2022 15:22:04 GMT
I know that "ranking sins" is disliked by some (even though moral theology manuals do precisely that), but while it is always evil and never fully excusable, there are worse sins than perpetuating a lie about oneself. As the saying goes, it's not as though she killed someone. Especially in the entertainment industry, covering up facts about one's life history, or even outright lying, were stock-in-trade for much of the 20th century. Stars and media personalities felt as though they had to lie about their ethnic origins (Merle Oberon would be one example), adopt British-sounding names in lieu of those that were Italian, Jewish, Slavic, and so on (Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis, Kirk Douglas, Rita Hayworth, Sandra Dee, and others too numerous to mention), or conceal their homosexuality (Rock Hudson, Liberace, Jim Nabors, and, again, others too numerous to mention). There was also the sad story of Loretta Young making up a legend about her love child with Clark Gable having been adopted by her. There are also those, not necessarily famous people, who concoct an elaborate, and utterly false, story of their life --- Rachel Dolezal comes immediately to mind. (Fun fact, years ago, I had a pen pal who weaved a wild tale about being a South Asian raised on a yacht by Parsees who spoke Gujarati, and being discriminated against because of her race. Turns out, she died a few years ago, I read her obituary, and she had made up about half of it, and wasn't South Asian at all, just a white American Southerner who so strongly identified with Indian culture that she adopted an ethnic name and learned the languages, including Urdu. Another Rachel Dolezal.) May they all rest in peace. As I was just posting elsewhere, back in the olden days there was little or no benefit for most people in identifying as an oppressed minority, unless perhaps it was a claim to be related to someone super-famous such as Pocahontas or Sitting Bull. And as you note, in the world of acting, it was not uncommon for people to make up whole new life histories for themselves, no one really cared. Unfortunately, in the decades since the 1960s, there's begun to be real benefits accruing to identifying as an oppressed minority. Such people often get preferential treatment in college admissions, academia, and professional jobs. When a faker gets such a benefit, it's taking that benefit away from an actual minority person. So, while it may have started off as a harmless career advancement move, by the end of Littlefeather's life it had taken on a lot more significance, and by then it's very hard for the person to back off the lies they created, which by that point they might have even talked themselves into believing. There's also some concern about these fakes, before being unmasked, being held up to the culture and even to actual minority people as being some kind of icons or pioneers and then when the truth is revealed that's just more disillusionment for kids who might have looked up to someone or regarded them as brave or a role model. I had a former pastor who mentioned in almost every homily that he thought lying, even "white lies", was the worst sin a person could commit. One reason he thought it was so bad was that it was so common and people didn't think of it as sinful, which to him made it all the more insidious. Granted, there are reasons including childhood trauma and mental illness that people make up lies about themselves, but it is a seriously bad thing to do, and should not be dismissed. A reverse of this is the huge number of Jewish writers and artists etc. who had to Anglicize names to get ahead which homeschool dad touches upon. This is one of my favourite artists below. I'd never have known he was Jewish had I not researched his background in-depth recently. He apparently tended to not reveal it as he knew it could as easily lose him work as gain it. The Finlay is from his father's side of the family. |
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