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Post by tisbearself on Nov 27, 2022 16:38:14 GMT
www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/252898/carlo-acutis-comic-book-creator-eucharistic-devotionPerhaps of interest to The Guvnor - a Marvel colorist worked on this project according to the article. Blessed Carlo is not one of my go-to saints (I generally don't relate well to saints who were super holy at a very young age), but this looks pretty neat, I like comic books as evangelization tools generally. I have happy memories of a Bible comic that used to run in the Sunday papers, although it was I believe made by Protestants, but still I learned a large amount about the Old Testament from it, since the Catholics in my day weren't really pushing the stories of anybody other than Moses and a little Abraham and David.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 27, 2022 21:08:33 GMT
Carlo is a boy whom I have immense respect for, my best friend at school had a nephew who died from leukemia - he was in immense pain near the end and it was distressing to my friend to visit him because they were close. I can recall my friend visiting him with me. It was distressing enough for me as I knew the boy since he was a toddler and we got on well because we were both natural nerds who like computer games and books etc. By the end, this boy was in constant extreme pain. My friend Philip came out of the hospital and he was so angry and upset he punched the wall and made his hands bleed. He was only in his twenties and he'd never seen anyone die before. Unfortunately, I had by that point several times so his father had asked me to go with him as a sounding board because he knew my friend would bottle his anger and grief up and then it would all come flooding out. Although my mother nursed terminally ill patients the kids normally went to other hospitals - occasionally they would have a terminally ill kid on the ward and this was a huge stressor on the nurses. It's bad enough caring for the terminally ill in a hospice anyway. Doing it with dying kids is an extra challenge yet again. The comic you are thinking of may be Treasure Chest:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Chest_(comics) - this was also run in inserts in the USA regionally as well. If so that was actually made by Catholics, if it is not that I'm searching my brain to think what comic it might be.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 27, 2022 21:27:26 GMT
For a comic book artist who was also a devout Catholic, I'm going to once again mention Nestor Redondo - a fabulous artist and highly respected by several generations in the industry. Including people whose political and religious views were totally different. He's also a legend in the Filipino comic book book artist - DC and Marvel were both prone to pinching these artists in the 70s and paying them less than their regular artists which led to a lot of industry arguments. www.comicartfans.com/comic-artists/Nestor_Redondo.asp
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 27, 2022 23:16:26 GMT
It wasn't Treasure Chest. I think I researched it online once and may have bookmarked so I will check.
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Post by homeschooldad on Nov 28, 2022 3:10:52 GMT
I learned about Treasure Chest from, of all people, George Carlin. That ship had already sailed by the time I came into the Catholic world, and I had no idea what George was talking about when he said "Chuck White... the Catholic comic book!". I didn't think much more about it for many years, then I did some digging, and actually purchased a couple of old copies on eBay, one of which I scanned into a PDF (old pulp paper can have a disagreeable odor). I tried to get my son interested in it, but he wasn't feeling the love, nonetheless, I have them put away somewhere. Good reading for youngsters and yet another casualty of the misinterpreted "spirit of Vatican II". There's also this: aleteia.org/2021/10/14/the-catholic-churchs-official-guide-to-comic-books/
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Post by ralfy on Nov 28, 2022 3:17:27 GMT
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 28, 2022 10:43:05 GMT
I looked around online again - it's very hard to find information about Bible-based comic strips from the 60s and 70s because since then the Bible comic industry has really exploded so every Google search is bringing up tons and tons of later stuff. Based on what I was able to find, I found two Bible strips that ran in newspapers I would have read as a child. The one I most likely read was called "Tales From The Great Book" by John Lehti and ran from the 50s before I was born, till 1971 or 1972, and was later repackaged as a one-panel comic called "Facts About the Bible" and is still apparently running in some newspapers today. I'm pretty sure Lehti was Protestant, as in the 50s, a Catholic artist wouldn't have been focusing so hard on the Old Testament. According to the reference link I posted below, he only drew OT stories so that the strip would appeal to both the Christian and Jewish audience. This strip didn't run in my hometown paper, I would read it when we visited out-of-town relatives. It was drawn in the style of action comics. strippersguide.blogspot.com/2021/05/tales-from-great-book.htmlThere was also a second strip called "Bible Stories" by an Italian team (Schiavocampo and the Sansonis) that ran in my hometown paper for a short time when I was 5 or 6 and was also sold as a book - this one was drawn by Italian artists the Sansonis and was Catholic, it had an imprimatur from the Archbishop of Milan. I don't remember that one as well because it only ran for about a year and a half. It wasn't really a comic, it was drawn in a Vatican II, kinda flat/ primitive modern art style - same style that was used to illustrate many Catholic religious books for children at that time. I've seen some of the illustrations in eBay listings and the like. As a kid, this book would not have impressed me because the art looked kinda lame (I was the type of kid who preferred very detailed art like Lehti's strip), but I'm considering getting a cheap used copy of the book now just so I can see if I remember any of it. www.amazon.com/Bible-Stories-Spadea-Renata-Schiavocampo/dp/B0018GUTU6Interestingly, the Treasure Chest books were actually published in my home state and distributed in Catholic schools, but I never saw an issue anywhere - not in school, not at a rummage sale or anyplace else. I started Catholic school in 1969 and they stopped publishing in 1972, but still, you'd think in 3 years I'd have seen it somewhere once. I read that the publisher started to address racism during the 60s and that could have been enough reason in my day for a school to think it was too controversial to show to kids, because we had a lot of racist parents where I lived. My own parents weren't that way but I discovered by about 2nd grade that a lot of other kids' families were prejudiced.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 28, 2022 11:25:46 GMT
That art style wouldn't impress me either. I used to get given books like this as a kid by my aunt Mary, my mother's half-sister. I preferred more realistic and dramatic art. By the stage my aunt was giving me these books I was already reading comics and this sort of cutesy art never appealed to me too much. I can just imagine the publisher steering clear of the racism issues in the late 1960's. The text below is from the opening pages of the author I'm still writing about (Cordwainer Smith) and he apparently had to fight for this to be included in 1965, it was dedicated to his housekeeper Eleanor who had died shortly before a collection of his stories was published. He apparently according to his daughter Rosana whom I contacted got very annoyed when the publisher noticed this would annoy some readers in the Deep South and noted, 'Let it annoy them - that will be good for them.' Smith was himself a very sick man by this point and Rosana noted the family were aware he was terminally ill as he had suffered from very poor health for most of his adult life. You were a Negro Eleanor and I have been called white. For seventeen years you shared my home, cooking, cleaning, and tending my things in America. You were a woman and I am a man. In seventeen years, we were thousands of times just the two of us in the house, and there was never an indecent gesture or an unchaste word from one of us to the other. I was kind, generous, courteous, and thoughtful towards you, and you were kind, generous, courteous and thoughtful toward me. That's not all of it and the end of it probably would have wound racists up for days as it concludes:- ‘while I was called master and you were called servant. I’ll see the real you again, Eleanor, in a friendly place in which both believe.' I think the comic book artist from the Philippines like Nestor Redondo and Rudy Nebres would likely have been more your thing but 1969 was a little bit before they published work in the US. Many of them published adaptations of Biblical stories back home though -sometimes reworked to fit a more modern setting to show the universal nature of the story. John Lehti worked for DC comics for a fairly long period of time. However, he is far from their best-known artist. He's one of many, many now mostly forgotten comic-book artists. DC comics had a habit of utilizing Nestor Redondo for stuff like this in the 1970's and he also worked on a comic called, 'Rima, The Jungle Girl' which I wish someone would reprint. The stories are not especially great but the art is fantastic. It's based on a very old novel en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mansions - there's a very odd and strange adaptation of this book into a movie starring a young Audrey Hepburn. www.lambiek.net/artists/l/lehti_john.htm
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 28, 2022 12:47:45 GMT
Redondo sure seems to be heavy into girl art (IDK whether it falls into good girl art or bad girl art) for a Catholic artist. I reckon to him it is probably just art though.
It's a shame there doesn't seem to be a compendium of Lehti's Bible comics. He seems to have been a much better artist of that stuff than others doing it at the time. I'd love to read a graphic novel Bible but most of the ones of the 70s were a little wimpy looking. The current Action Bibles go to the other extreme with ripped Jesus and the like, then of course there's the anime and big-headed styles that do nothing for me if the material is serious.
I keep thinking there was also another single-panel Bible cartoon that had Scripture verses at the bottom and ran in one of the Buffalo, NY newspapers but I haven't been able to track that one down yet and I may be confusing it with Lehti's "Facts About the Bible".
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 28, 2022 12:58:45 GMT
It's just common stuff for the comic-book genre. There are several fairly devout Christians who are comic-book artists who are well-known for art of this style. If you want a graphic novel of the Bible - well DC did a compressed edition of it but it honestly really only covers major points and although it is a decent enough product it is dated in some regards. It has a farming sequence of a bunch of nippers straight out of the Brady Bunch and an older gent explaining the Bible to them. But DC try and fit the whole Bible into under one hundred pages which is obviously ludicrous. For what there is in there it has great art but it is not a particularly deep approach to it. You can read a bit of it here and it is quite easy to find the whole thing to read online:- pinoykomiksausa.blogspot.com/2009/01/nestor-redondos-bible.htmlHere are some other possible artists that might interest you, although I offer a strong word of caution with R.Crumb. He is divisive and I've seen people physically throw books by him across rooms in real life. My English teacher at school who lived through the hippy era loved him and was also a devout Catholic but he certainly is not to everyone's taste. Basil Wolverton illustrating Bible passages sounds interesting - this is another 60's cultural icon in the world of comic books and imagining him illustrating the Bible is a bit mind-bending. It is like trying to imagine Granny Takes a Trip doing it: lukearnott.weebly.com/culturenautica-blog/comic-book-adaptations-of-the-bible#:~:text=Comic-book%20adaptations%20of%20the%20Old%20Testament%20and%20New,and%20Robert%20Crumb%20are%20also%20appearing.%20Manga%20Bibles
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 28, 2022 13:02:48 GMT
Here's a piece of trivia I'd forgotten about - this is from L.Ron Hubbard's other career as an artist illustrating sci-fi mags:- www.korshakcollection.com/view-the-collection?lightbox=dataItem-k2zbs0v4I've ended up for research purposes reading more of Mr. Hubbard's tedious nonsense than I would ever do voluntarily and as well as being a mediocre (and I'm being kind there) sci-fi writer he was also an illustrator at times. As a note to the above Hannes Bok is also the pseduonym for another artist en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannes_Bok - but there is endless argumention over Hubbard's involvement in the art. Given the wide use of pseudonyms in the sci-fi community this is not surprising. There are still a load of stories and art by people where no-one is sure who really wrote or drew it and people argue about possible authors or creators constantly.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 28, 2022 14:07:09 GMT
Thanks - Wolverton's Christian work is too weird and apocalyptic for me, reminds me of the "Church of the Risen Christ" cult that was enslaving people back in Ohio when I was a kid.
I will admit I have seen that Crumb Genesis book advertised and am curious, but given the type of material that Genesis sometimes contains, I am not sure if I want to look at Crumb illustrations of such activities.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 28, 2022 15:16:26 GMT
I'd say given what Crumb normally produces that's probably wise. Not everyone is going to enjoy his work, I don't mind it in small doses now and then but he is an acquired taste. Especially when he gets going about sexual topics and drawing his 'bigleg women' - which is a thing he has an obsession with. Wolverton drawing Christian is a strange matchup indeed. Especially when you are aware of his background in underground comix. I found this, it would be nice if they listed the artist: tanbooks.com/products/books/bibles/rsv/the-catholic-comic-book-bible-acts-of-the-apostles/I'm going to make an educated guess that this is a reprint from a time when comic-book artists moonlighted from the large comic-book companies to do this sort of stuff and it often was deliberately left unsigned. Also, comic-book artists were often not seen as real artists by people publishing this stuff sadly.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 28, 2022 17:34:13 GMT
Crumb is from around where I live now and lived for a long time in the city of my birth, where he was friends with the well-known Harvey Pekar (as dramatized in "American Splendor"). I mostly know him via his album cover art but have in the past read some of his stuff. I'm not the type who gets all wound up over how he draws women, but I find some of his work to be an occasion of sin for me.
He is also a lapsed Catholic and I understand his take on Genesis is very true to the source, as in, not satirical or making fun of it, however his portrayal of God is as an angry old dictator because apparently that's how he actually views God.
I will probably eventually read it, but not right now. I will of course also pray for him.
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 28, 2022 18:35:52 GMT
Yeah, I'm familiar with Harvey's work. Robert does tend to portray God in a style I dislike. Of comic-book writers who deal with religion, John Ostrander who originally was a seminary student is quite good with that sort of stuff but sadly he is getting on a bit and quite ill. He had one marvelous character Father Craemer who used to hear confessions from other characters. Father Craemer was a high Anglican but his ruminations on human nature were hilarious. He managed to get that on the panel in a superhero comic book in the late 80s which was amazing. He also wrote several characters who were Catholic and managed to do a good job of it, even better he managed to capture the nuances of what separates different social classes of Catholics at times. Ostrander had a standout moment for me when he wrote one villain who was Catholic and depressed and suicidal and they had a continuing plot thread with this which culminated in the character deciding not to commit suicide but the reasons for that decision were left open to the reader's interpretation.
Ostrander wrote a series called Grimjack in the 80s which has a city where all realities collide and in one story he has Jesus visiting the bar that is the central hub of the stories and helping the owner do some decorating. Other great moments that are equally stupid and brilliant include the city's police force trying to solve the murder of Balder from Norse myth as the Norse gods are visiting the city. The upshot been the Norse gods forgot to tell the police force Balder is regularly killed and revived due to the cyclical nature of Norse myth which causes members of the police force to become ever so slightly annoyed about the waste of police time.
Mind you, the industry has changed so much that what Ostrander was writing couldn't be done anymore sadly. Also, people writing comic books then had often read more than just other comic books and weren't navel-gazing so much. People like Ostrander would chuck in references to art or literature or history. Now, we get improved production values but the end result feels soulless.
Genesis as you probably know is composed of two narrative strands. I can imagine Crumb would likely do a good job adapting Genesis but I could think of creators who'd be better suited for doing it in a less edgy way.
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