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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 6, 2023 22:50:31 GMT
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Post by farronwolf on Jun 6, 2023 23:55:27 GMT
Terrible article with misleading statements, if not outright false statements.
For instance, everyone here has seen the video at Houcks home, and no agents burst into his home. Plain and simple lie in the article.
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Post by tisbearself on Jun 7, 2023 9:00:52 GMT
Regardless of how we spin it, the Houck arrest was unnecessary, disgraceful, and an embarrassment to the Feds. Between that and the leaked memo on infiltrating Catholic parishes, they will be treading much more carefully going forward.
My tax dollars are not put to good use sending agents to arrest a peaceable businessman in Bucks County who had already offered via his lawyer to turn himself in.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 9, 2023 15:55:43 GMT
Regardless of how we spin it, the Houck arrest was unnecessary, disgraceful, and an embarrassment to the Feds. Between that and the leaked memo on infiltrating Catholic parishes, they will be treading much more carefully going forward. My tax dollars are not put to good use sending agents to arrest a peaceable businessman in Bucks County who had already offered via his lawyer to turn himself in. I'd want to define "bursting". Did agents come to his door? Granted, they didn't batter the door down and swarm in as they did with Breanna Taylor in Louisville, but if four or five agents came to the door and demanded to come in, depending on whose ox is being gored, that could be called "bursting in". Perceptions often vary. I'm reminded here of the episode of All In The Family where a repairman's assistant, African American, came to the house, was carving an apple, smudged it accidentally on Archie's shirt, and Archie absent-mindedly called him "boy". Archie's version of the story had him as a Black Panther-esque militant with a dagger, and Mike's version had him as a demeaning "Uncle Tom"-type character. The truth lay somewhere in the middle. www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/0NVTD3NUBMR8J0H3GEFUH4PPYE/ref=atv_dl_rdr?tag=justusbyur-20
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 9, 2023 18:24:27 GMT
All in The Family stays true to the British show it borrows from insomuch as from what I've seen Archie and Mike are both biased. This was true in the original show where it was Alf Garnett and his son-in-law Mike who would constantly argue back and forth and the only vaguely sensible person in the house was Alf's wife Else. This sequence should give a flavour of the original. The bloke playing Alf's son-in-law was Tony Blair's father-in-law in real life. www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbfoSX2YRA8
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 9, 2023 18:39:53 GMT
This is a personal favourite of mine because it exemplifies a)What an idiot Alf is (Alf is a lot less likeable than Archie eventually became in, 'All In The Family' - he has some moments you sympathize with him but the British show is much less cuddly overall)* The home help who visits to care for Alf's wife Else who in a wheelchair has taken her out to Church and Alf is incapable of making his own dinner. Not actually uncommon for some older working-class men in the East End who were totally incapable of household chares if the wife became ill or died. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KpF-9aS_OA*Which has its pluses and minuses, Archie actually grows as a character and you get the sense he is not a bigot deep down. Just not very well educated. On the other hand, it dilute some of the central idea of the main character been such a bigot.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 9, 2023 19:53:36 GMT
All in The Family stays true to the British show it borrows from insomuch as from what I've seen Archie and Mike are both biased. This was true in the original show where it was Alf Garnett and his son-in-law Mike who would constantly argue back and forth and the only vaguely sensible person in the house was Alf's wife Else. This sequence should give a flavour of the original. The bloke playing Alf's son-in-law was Tony Blair's father-in-law in real life. www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbfoSX2YRA8I've seen Till Death Us Do Part, and it is very similar to AITF. Even the inside of the house looks similar. AITF always makes me think of a colorized version of The Honeymooners with less spartan furnishings and more piquant subject matter and dialogue. If you turn off the volume and set your TV to black and white, you'd think you were watching some old-fogey 1950s sitcom. And Woody Harrelson and Marisa Tomei in the recent remake play their roles to perfection. That was some of the most fun I've had watching TV in the past decade or so (not counting Breaking Bad). You could tell that Marisa was having the time of her life.
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 9, 2023 21:02:26 GMT
'AITF' has more of a character arc as I say. Archie is gradually humanized somewhat, really Alf doesn't grow a low. In fact he seems to recede into the distance. He was a relic by the time the show ended and that was deliberate. He was a man totally out of time who had never bothere to change or keep up to date and that was part of the tragedy underlying the comedy.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 9, 2023 23:06:59 GMT
'AITF' has more of a character arc as I say. Archie is gradually humanized somewhat, really Alf doesn't grow a low. In fact he seems to recede into the distance. He was a relic by the time the show ended and that was deliberate. He was a man totally out of time who had never bothere to change or keep up to date and that was part of the tragedy underlying the comedy. American comedy requires that characters have at least some redeeming characteristics, and are capable of growth and introspection, in keeping with the idea that all problems are ultimately solvable, and that there is redemption for everybody, both of these being part of the American "shiny happy people" mindset. Americans don't want to be bothered with your troubles, don't want to hear your complaints, indeed, there is the unspoken assumption of "don't get your 'sad cooties' on me!". (African Americans seem to have a different experience. My perception has always been that they prefer to keep their troubles to themselves, i.e., not share them with white people, for some very comprehensible reasons --- "it's a black thing, you wouldn't understand".) Even Seinfeld, which broke all of these rules and more, had a strange appeal, a je ne sais quoi. ( Seinfeld has always come across to me as an unflattering secular New York Jewish minstrel show. Though Jerry is the only obviously Jewish main cast member, there's still this New York "culturally Jewish by assimilation" thing.) Characters such as Alf Garrett, or Edina Monsoon and Patsy Stone from Absolutely Fabulous, would never fly in the US. There was an American adaptation of AbFab, High Society, with Jean Smart and Mary McDonnell (who somewhat resembled Joanna Lumley and Jennifer Saunders respectively), and it really wasn't a half-bad show. But it didn't last long. Some remakes just don't work. This wheel shall explode!
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Post by ralfy on Jun 10, 2023 5:36:13 GMT
Pope Benedict XVI allowed the EF for the ff. reasons: The OF and EF are one and the same rite: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.htmland some grew up with it: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.htmlNotice the point about familiarity: some want the EF because they grew up with it. Claims that the EF is different, better, etc., are illogical given ironically the first reason, and that it may be used is governed by the second. That's what TC did: follow the second reason. Given that, the conclusion given in the article about the meaning of a "nostalgic disease" is wrong. That disease is based on those who didn't grow up with the EF and insist for nostalgic reasons that a "traditional" Church, i.e., uses Latin, older versions of the Catechism and even translations of the Bible, is superior to the present one. An additional motivation is political: attack "progressives" and maintain U.S. conservatism. That needs to be specified because conservatism has different meanings in other parts of the Catholic world. Finally, it's good that AITF is mentioned, because it precisely reveals the effects of that nostalgic disease and limitations of modernism. See if you can figure that out in my favorite episode featuring Sammy Davis, Jr. www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_UBgkFHm8oThe whole episode isn't shown, so here's the context: Sammy, who plays himself, accidentally leaves his briefcase in Archie's cab, which Archie drives as his part-time job (I remember him working at the docks). Archie asks a co-worker to bring it to his place and invites Sammy over. The neighbors and his friends find out.
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Post by theguvnor on Jun 10, 2023 13:00:14 GMT
Patsy is a particularly hilarious character, but yes she is totally unrepentant. Lumley is parodying aspects of her own history and life as well which makes the satire that much more vicious. I have quite a bit of respect for Lumley, especially her campaign for the Gurkhas.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 10, 2023 13:20:22 GMT
Pope Benedict XVI allowed the EF for the ff. reasons: The OF and EF are one and the same rite: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.htmland some grew up with it: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.htmlNotice the point about familiarity: some want the EF because they grew up with it. Claims that the EF is different, better, etc., are illogical given ironically the first reason, and that it may be used is governed by the second. That's what TC did: follow the second reason. Given that, the conclusion given in the article about the meaning of a "nostalgic disease" is wrong. That disease is based on those who didn't grow up with the EF and insist for nostalgic reasons that a "traditional" Church, i.e., uses Latin, older versions of the Catechism and even translations of the Bible, is superior to the present one. An additional motivation is political: attack "progressives" and maintain U.S. conservatism. That needs to be specified because conservatism has different meanings in other parts of the Catholic world. Finally, it's good that AITF is mentioned, because it precisely reveals the effects of that nostalgic disease and limitations of modernism. See if you can figure that out in my favorite episode featuring Sammy Davis, Jr. www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_UBgkFHm8oThe whole episode isn't shown, so here's the context: Sammy, who plays himself, accidentally leaves his briefcase in Archie's cab, which Archie drives as his part-time job (I remember him working at the docks). Archie asks a co-worker to bring it to his place and invites Sammy over. The neighbors and his friends find out. I know the episode, though aside from Archie's troglodyte worldview, I'm hard-pressed to see any correlation to an alleged "nostalgia disease" that supposedly fuels TLM adherents, as well as "limitations of modernism". Not clear what you're referring to in the latter. You and I have gone back and forth on the EF/OF thing repeatedly on this forum, and it has been a good exchange, but there is nothing more I can add to it, and I invite the reader to go back and read our exchanges, and find whatever merits they see. I simply disagree that promulgation of the OF, in its existing form, was a good thing, regardless of what Benedict or anyone else says. It may be the "same rite", but that does not mean it would be good to jettison the EF entirely and have the OF and only the OF. Goals of increased use of the vernacular, inculturation, catechizing the faithful as to what exactly goes on at Mass --- "what Mass is" --- and additional Scripture readings interpolated among the existing ones (which have been the normative readings for those Masses from the time of St Gregory the Great), all could have been done without changing the Missal of St Pius V itself. I'm not even thrilled about the insertion of St Joseph into the Canon, nothing against St Joseph, but the Canon needed to be left as it was. Past Popes before John XXIII refused to do that.
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Post by ralfy on Jun 12, 2023 6:20:11 GMT
Pope Benedict XVI allowed the EF for the ff. reasons: The OF and EF are one and the same rite: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.htmland some grew up with it: www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.htmlNotice the point about familiarity: some want the EF because they grew up with it. Claims that the EF is different, better, etc., are illogical given ironically the first reason, and that it may be used is governed by the second. That's what TC did: follow the second reason. Given that, the conclusion given in the article about the meaning of a "nostalgic disease" is wrong. That disease is based on those who didn't grow up with the EF and insist for nostalgic reasons that a "traditional" Church, i.e., uses Latin, older versions of the Catechism and even translations of the Bible, is superior to the present one. An additional motivation is political: attack "progressives" and maintain U.S. conservatism. That needs to be specified because conservatism has different meanings in other parts of the Catholic world. Finally, it's good that AITF is mentioned, because it precisely reveals the effects of that nostalgic disease and limitations of modernism. See if you can figure that out in my favorite episode featuring Sammy Davis, Jr. www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_UBgkFHm8oThe whole episode isn't shown, so here's the context: Sammy, who plays himself, accidentally leaves his briefcase in Archie's cab, which Archie drives as his part-time job (I remember him working at the docks). Archie asks a co-worker to bring it to his place and invites Sammy over. The neighbors and his friends find out. I know the episode, though aside from Archie's troglodyte worldview, I'm hard-pressed to see any correlation to an alleged "nostalgia disease" that supposedly fuels TLM adherents, as well as "limitations of modernism". Not clear what you're referring to in the latter. You and I have gone back and forth on the EF/OF thing repeatedly on this forum, and it has been a good exchange, but there is nothing more I can add to it, and I invite the reader to go back and read our exchanges, and find whatever merits they see. I simply disagree that promulgation of the OF, in its existing form, was a good thing, regardless of what Benedict or anyone else says. It may be the "same rite", but that does not mean it would be good to jettison the EF entirely and have the OF and only the OF. Goals of increased use of the vernacular, inculturation, catechizing the faithful as to what exactly goes on at Mass --- "what Mass is" --- and additional Scripture readings interpolated among the existing ones (which have been the normative readings for those Masses from the time of St Gregory the Great), all could have been done without changing the Missal of St Pius V itself. I'm not even thrilled about the insertion of St Joseph into the Canon, nothing against St Joseph, but the Canon needed to be left as it was. Past Popes before John XXIII refused to do that.
Archie represents conservatism while Michael represents liberalism. What makes sense lies between the two, which is why as the seasons go by Archie becomes more liberal while Michael becomes more conservative. In that episode, who was between the two if not Sammy?
Our discussions have never been a good exchange because I've been trying to see things between Archie and Michael, and all it took was that article about a "nostalgic disease" to make me realize that your views are essentially based on seeing the Mass as a performance and form as well as a having a romantic view of the past. From there, you denied that and then proceeded to demonstrate it. Good grief. It even reached a point where you even had to go against Pope Benedict XVI by stating that the OF and the EF aren't the same.
Finally, that's why even the insertion of St. Joseph displeases you. Almost everything that the Church has been doing recently is wrong, and you need to emphasize that in every new thread.
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