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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 19, 2023 0:35:23 GMT
www.timesrecordnews.com/story/life/2023/06/02/returning-to-the-roots-orthodox-church-to-celebrate-latin-mass/70258531007/This is not a church I would be going to, unless there were absolutely no other way to assist at Holy Mass (and they probably would not commune me anyway). If I am understanding their rubrics correctly, they use leavened bread pressed into a flat disk to resemble Western-style Hosts, and they retrofit a very explicit epiklesis into the Eucharistic canon, as Orthodox theology holds that the Real Presence is not "there" until, at the very least, the Holy Ghost is called down upon the Sacred Species. (As a practical matter, though, they do not attempt to pinpoint down an exact moment when the Eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.) This is not a Mass that traditionalist Catholics would seek out, for some very obvious reasons. I don't know whom they think they are going to attract.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 23:08:42 GMT
www.timesrecordnews.com/story/life/2023/06/02/returning-to-the-roots-orthodox-church-to-celebrate-latin-mass/70258531007/This is not a church I would be going to, unless there were absolutely no other way to assist at Holy Mass (and they probably would not commune me anyway). If I am understanding their rubrics correctly, they use leavened bread pressed into a flat disk to resemble Western-style Hosts, and they retrofit a very explicit epiklesis into the Eucharistic canon, as Orthodox theology holds that the Real Presence is not "there" until, at the very least, the Holy Ghost is called down upon the Sacred Species. (As a practical matter, though, they do not attempt to pinpoint down an exact moment when the Eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.) This is not a Mass that traditionalist Catholics would seek out, for some very obvious reasons. I don't know whom they think they are going to attract. There are some converts to Orthodoxy from Catholicism and Protestantism who prefer the Tridentine Mass to the Byzantine rite. Western Rite Orthodoxy mostly exists in overseas parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church. Bishop Jerome Shaw (b. 1946), a retired American bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia is a strong proponent of Western Rite Orthodoxy and claims to have received the blessing of Patriarch Kirill to promote Western Rite Orthodoxy. The ROCOR however has discouraged this phenomenon and has censured Bishop Jerome, although last year he seemed to have been rehabilitated as he was included in a committee of the ROCOR working on the canonical reception of schismatics. The official position of the ROCOR seems to be that Western Rite Orthodoxy should be counted as a temporary phenomenon as it is considered unnecessarily divisive. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Jun 20, 2023 0:18:40 GMT
www.timesrecordnews.com/story/life/2023/06/02/returning-to-the-roots-orthodox-church-to-celebrate-latin-mass/70258531007/This is not a church I would be going to, unless there were absolutely no other way to assist at Holy Mass (and they probably would not commune me anyway). If I am understanding their rubrics correctly, they use leavened bread pressed into a flat disk to resemble Western-style Hosts, and they retrofit a very explicit epiklesis into the Eucharistic canon, as Orthodox theology holds that the Real Presence is not "there" until, at the very least, the Holy Ghost is called down upon the Sacred Species. (As a practical matter, though, they do not attempt to pinpoint down an exact moment when the Eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.) This is not a Mass that traditionalist Catholics would seek out, for some very obvious reasons. I don't know whom they think they are going to attract. There are some converts to Orthodoxy from Catholicism and Protestantism who prefer the Tridentine Mass to the Byzantine rite. Western Rite Orthodoxy mostly exists in overseas parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church. Bishop Jerome Shaw (b. 1946), a retired American bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia is a strong proponent of Western Rite Orthodoxy and claims to have received the blessing of Patriarch Kirill to promote Western Rite Orthodoxy. The ROCOR however has discouraged this phenomenon and has censured Bishop Jerome, although last year he seemed to have been rehabilitated as he was included in a committee of the ROCOR working on the canonical reception of schismatics. The official position of the ROCOR seems to be that Western Rite Orthodoxy should be counted as a temporary phenomenon as it is considered unnecessarily divisive. The "vibe" I've always gotten, is that it is a kind of pastoral provision intended not to reconstitute Western Orthodox Catholic Christianity outside of the Roman Church (if that makes sense), but as a concession to those who wish to worship in a Western fashion, and --- here's where the "vibe" part comes in --- eventually to disappear in lieu of those Western-leaning people becoming fully Easternized (again, if that makes sense) and abandoning the Gregorian liturgy entirely. I've wondered why the Orthodox don't just go all the way, and create a "Western Orthodox Bishop of Rome", who would have a kind of primacy, but not be a "pope" as we understand the concept (i.e., not infallible, not the head of the Church other than being perhaps a primus inter pares, with absolutely no authority over any Orthodox outside of Rome). I'm sure there's some sort of canonical (or something) reason they haven't done that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 0:38:42 GMT
There are some converts to Orthodoxy from Catholicism and Protestantism who prefer the Tridentine Mass to the Byzantine rite. Western Rite Orthodoxy mostly exists in overseas parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church. Bishop Jerome Shaw (b. 1946), a retired American bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia is a strong proponent of Western Rite Orthodoxy and claims to have received the blessing of Patriarch Kirill to promote Western Rite Orthodoxy. The ROCOR however has discouraged this phenomenon and has censured Bishop Jerome, although last year he seemed to have been rehabilitated as he was included in a committee of the ROCOR working on the canonical reception of schismatics. The official position of the ROCOR seems to be that Western Rite Orthodoxy should be counted as a temporary phenomenon as it is considered unnecessarily divisive. The "vibe" I've always gotten, is that it is a kind of pastoral provision intended not to reconstitute Western Orthodox Catholic Christianity outside of the Roman Church (if that makes sense), but as a concession to those who wish to worship in a Western fashion, and --- here's where the "vibe" part comes in --- eventually to disappear in lieu of those Western-leaning people becoming fully Easternized (again, if that makes sense) and abandoning the Gregorian liturgy entirely. I've wondered why the Orthodox don't just go all the way, and create a "Western Orthodox Bishop of Rome", who would have a kind of primacy, but not be a "pope" as we understand the concept (i.e., not infallible, not the head of the Church other than being perhaps a primus inter pares, with absolutely no authority over any Orthodox outside of Rome). I'm sure there's some sort of canonical (or something) reason they haven't done that. I think there are a couple of reasons they have not done that. Firstly, there were very few Orthodox Christians in Western Europe until the 20th century. Secondly, all the Orthodox Churches would have to agree on it and presumably create a new autocephalous Church. Given that in Ukraine Orthodox Christians are literally fighting each other with acid, gas, and all-out violence that is dividing villages and families across the country just because they can't agree on autocephaly, you can understand why this is a challenge. Don't forget that currently: 1. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church are not in communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the Patriarchate of Alexandria, the Church of Greece, or the Church of Cyprus (except for those bishops in the latter two Churches that do not recognise the questionably created "Orthodox Church of Ukraine", a political project of Ukrainian President P. O. Poroshenko). 2. The Patriarchate of Antioch is not in communion with the Patriarchate of Jerusalem. 3. The "Orthodox Church of Ukraine" is only in communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the Patriarchate of Alexandria, and those bishops of the Churches of Greece and Cyprus who elect to recognise the OCU. Thirdly, I think both Moscow and Constantinople are wise enough to know such a move to set up a rival Bishop of Rome would upset Rome. There are Orthodox churches in Rome anyway. |
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