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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 3, 2023 17:05:41 GMT
www.lifesitenews.com/news/archbishop-fernandez-suggests-pope-francis-might-allow-people-in-grave-sin-to-receive-communionIt becomes easier and easier each day to see who is right and who is wrong in all of this. First thing to do, start catechizing people, from the pulpit and elsewhere, as to what mortal sin is, and precisely what actions (given the other two conditions) constitute it, and start warning them not to receive communion if they are in mortal sin. (To be fair, even the present Catechism spells this out in exactly the same way as pre-Vatican II catechisms did. I really cannot fault the new Catechism when it comes to traditional moral teaching, which, of course, does not change.) Second, don't be afraid to use the term. "Grave" and "serious" don't get the point across. Sin is either mortal or venial. No middle ground. I've seen this coming for over 40 years now --- carve out some kind of middle category, "grave but not mortal", and then leave it open to interpretation, "well, I'm not in mortal sin, just grave sin, so I can go ahead and receive".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 18:32:26 GMT
Sin can be grave but not mortal; this is the traditional teaching of the Church. However somebody conscious of grave sin should treat it as though it is mortal and go to confession even if there is doubt whether the other conditions were fulfilled. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 3, 2023 20:25:25 GMT
Sin can be grave but not mortal; this is the traditional teaching of the Church. However somebody conscious of grave sin should treat it as though it is mortal and go to confession even if there is doubt whether the other conditions were fulfilled. I am quite aware of that. Mortal sin has three parts: - Grave matter in and of itself (I would say "mortally sinful in and of itself", which I'm pretty sure is what catechisms and moral theology books used to say, but for some reason people quit using that turn of phrase)
- Sufficient reflection (you have to be aware, on some level anyway, that it is gravely/mortally sinful)
- Full consent of the will (you have to be in command of your faculties and fully want to do it)
This used to be top-of-mind knowledge for any Catholic who had been at least minimally catechized, but these days, sadly, many (possibly most) have no clue. Not only that, but they don't even realize what sins rise to the level of grave matter, and what sins do not. I see precisely what is going on --- "yes, the matter is grave, but you know, people need to be able to receive communion, medicine for the sick and not a prize for the perfect". It's a sweet thought, but the fact remains, the grave matter, coupled with the other two conditions, makes for mortal sin. |
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 3, 2023 20:54:57 GMT
I'll believe it when it happens.
Pope Francis has had years to make these purported sweeping changes (AL came out quite a few years back) and has not done so.
I suspect people and priests will be allowed to continue to muddle along as they have been doing.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 3, 2023 21:55:33 GMT
All that people have to do, is to read the part of the Catechism that deals with mortal sin. Deo gratias, it reads exactly the same as older catechisms:
1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.
The trick then is to teach people what mortal sin is.
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Post by theguvnor on Aug 5, 2023 23:21:15 GMT
'The Muddlers' - I could imagine a good daily comic strip with such a title chronicling the ups and downs of a group of Christian (and non-Christian) friends.
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Post by Lost Sheep on Aug 15, 2023 14:53:21 GMT
Two Questions: >Aug 3, 2023 14:32:26 GMT -4 khristosvoskres said: >Sin can be grave but not mortal; this is the traditional teaching of the Church. However somebody conscious of grave sin >should treat it as though it is mortal and go to confession even if there is doubt whether the other conditions were fulfilled. Can you give an example of a sin that is grave but not mortal? >Aug 3, 2023 16:25:25 GMT -4 homeschooldad said: >Full consent of the will (you have to be in command of your faculties and fully want to do it) What is the criteria for determining whether or not you are in command of your faculties? Just as a example, suppose someone is addicted to pornography? If a person is addicted, are they or are they not in command of their faculties? |
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 15, 2023 15:13:55 GMT
Two Questions: Can you give an example of a sin that is grave but not mortal? Catechism: If a sin consists of grave matter but the person committing it lacked either full knowledge that it was a sin, or lacked deliberate consent, then it's not a mortal sin. For example, if someone holds a gun to your head or your child's head and forces you to commit some grave matter sin, like stealing a large amount of money or killing someone else, then your sin is not mortal because you didn't freely consent to it, you were threatened or forced into doing so. Or if someone wasn't well catechized and didn't know some particular marital sex practice was sinful (maybe they got bad or confusing advice from their priest or catechist) and they did it with their spouse, then it wouldn't be a mortal sin because they genuinely didn't know and it wasn't something obvious like murder, robbery or cheating on your spouse that a person would naturally know is wrong. The person would need to discuss the situation with their priest. If a person was mentally ill with some psychosis or delusion or confusion (like dementia or learning disabled), or was sleepwalking, or was impaired by alcohol or some drug or even an addiction, then they might not have command of their faculties. Obviously, some of these conditions like psychosis and sleepwalking are beyond a person's control. If the person voluntarily drank or took drugs till he lost control, then that might be a grave or mortal sin in itself, even if the act he committed while drunk or high doesn't meet the criteria for mortal sin. Again this needs to be discussed with a priest. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. The priest would probably consider things like, did the person know he had an addiction, was he taking steps to overcome the addiction, what led up to him committing the sin, how does he plan to avoid such sin in the future etc. Just having an addiction doesn't give you a free pass to do whatever. |
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