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Post by tisbearself on Aug 21, 2023 11:33:50 GMT
I likewise was at a TLM at St Stephen's once where an entire family had showed up in shorts and t-shirts and nobody batted an eye.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 21, 2023 17:46:55 GMT
I likewise was at a TLM at St Stephen's once where an entire family had showed up in shorts and t-shirts and nobody batted an eye. Can't say I've ever seen anything that egregious. Most TLM locations have some sort of notice about what is deemed proper dress, but if someone just stumbles in, perhaps in search of a Mass to fulfill their obligation (possibly not even knowing it is a TLM), well, that can't be helped. Newcomers, if they wish to return, might take note of the people around them, and think "hey, this Mass seems more solemn and reverent than what I'm used to, and the people are better-dressed, so I'd better wear something a bit less informal next time". Our diocesan TLM shares a parish church with a mainline Novus Ordo congregation (though the pastor is very traditional and has learned how to offer the TLM himself), and once in awhile, people will show up if, for instance, they weren't able to make it to Mass earlier that day, and sometimes it's obvious by their dress and general sense of befuddlement. (Of course they are entirely welcome.) There was one HDO, forget which one, on which for some reason the TLM was the most feasible Mass to get to, and we had one guy show up in an athletic logo T-shirt and sat on one of the front rows. Again, entirely welcome. I normally wear a collared long-sleeved shirt with black trousers (I always wear black chinos because they're slenderizing, sorely needed in my case), tie and/or jacket, or not, depending upon weather. This is the South and such things aren't always practical due to the climate, also, I am warm-natured and take medication that occasionally causes me to break out in sweat unpredictably.
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 21, 2023 20:59:51 GMT
I usually just pop on some kind of long dress or skirt and a head covering and have done with it. I have lots of maxi skirts and dresses because I've hated pantyhose for decades.
One time the only head covering I could lay hands on was a doily and I had to find some of my mom's old bobby pins to attach it to my head. After that I bought a leopard headscarf at the drugstore in the 'hood across from the old Carmelite monastery and kept it in the car for TLM emergencies. I do not cover my head at OF as it's not the custom there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2023 23:08:17 GMT
I almost always wear a suit and tie to Holy Mass on Sunday. I am far from alone in doing that at my parish. The only exception is where I am away from the city and attending Mass in a rural area where I would stand out too much.
My permanent outfit should usually suffice for both the Novus ordo and the TLM, but I prefer to wear nicer clothes on a Sunday to church. Never will I judge anybody who wears less formal clothes to church. It is better that they are there than not.
My ordinary set of clothes is usually comprised of suit trousers, a collared shirt, a v-neck jersey, and sometimes (depending on the weather) a blazer or suit jacket. That alone usually suffices if I wish to go to confession or attend Holy Mass during the week.
What is so interesting is that my father dislikes wearing a suit and tie. He only wears a suit and tie to meet government ministers, which happens perhaps once a week. His ordinary dress for work is merely a suit without a tie. On weekends he eschews all formality. Sometimes he used to go to church with me on Sunday when I was still at school, and we must have looked a very odd pair indeed. I think my father takes after his own father in that regard.
Interestingly, our former Prime Minister and his wife sometimes go to Mass at our parish and he never wears a full suit and tie. Usually he wears a blazer with chinos. I noticed that particularly because he brought the offertory gifts last Sunday.
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Post by ralfy on Aug 25, 2023 21:06:23 GMT
"TLM Shrine". Good grief.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 25, 2023 23:31:06 GMT
"TLM Shrine". Good grief. People who grew up with and miss the TLM, who live their lives in Latin, and are unable to learn the Novus Ordo have to go to Mass somewhere. Just so long as they leave their kids at home.
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 26, 2023 1:36:01 GMT
I daresay part of the fun of the TLM is watching people whose lives are in no way affected by its existence constantly get their knickers in a twist over it.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 26, 2023 1:41:15 GMT
I daresay part of the fun of the TLM is watching people whose lives are in no way affected by its existence constantly get their knickers in a twist over it. Most people don't care one way or the other. It's just certain prelates and the occasional layperson who wants to see the whole Church get on board with the Novus Ordo, and/or for whatever reason fears the growth of the TLM. I'm guessing that they see us as a bad influence who could, given enough numbers, time, resources, and sheer not-shutting-up-about-it, get a fairly good chunk of the faithful (at least in European and European-adjacent societies) to prefer the TLM, or at least to be sympathetic to those who do prefer it. I'm also guessing that they don't want it getting on people's minds that the two forms of Mass are very different (at least in externals), and having people to take a look and compare the two. IOW, just let the TLM be forgotten. Not happening. To suggest "there's something wrong with you if you don't prefer the Novus Ordo" doesn't have a good sound to it. People will rightly ask "why?". Online fora probably attract people with stronger feelings in either direction.
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Post by ralfy on Aug 27, 2023 6:01:59 GMT
"TLM Shrine". Good grief. People who grew up with and miss the TLM, who live their lives in Latin, and are unable to learn the Novus Ordo have to go to Mass somewhere. Just so long as they leave their kids at home.
Live their lives in Latin.
Right.
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 28, 2023 22:33:42 GMT
Well HSD, looks like maybe things aren't so rosy in the Diocese of Cleveland for the ol' TLM. Bishop Malesic wants these TLMs at St Elizabeth so he can get the ICKSP in there to run it and thus get it out from under the diocese. He wants the diocesan TLM to continue at St Stephen and one other place. Another church, Immaculate Conception, will hold their last TLM on Nov 1. Akron has lost its TLM. I am sure things will all come round right in the end, as both youth and money are on the side of the TLM, but till then, we continue to fight the good fight. www.clevelandtlmfriends.com/a-golden-era-is-coming-to-a-close/
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 28, 2023 23:15:31 GMT
Well HSD, looks like maybe things aren't so rosy in the Diocese of Cleveland for the ol' TLM. Bishop Malesic wants these TLMs at St Elizabeth so he can get the ICKSP in there to run it and thus get it out from under the diocese. He wants the diocesan TLM to continue at St Stephen and one other place. Another church, Immaculate Conception, will hold their last TLM on Nov 1. Akron has lost its TLM. I am sure things will all come round right in the end, as both youth and money are on the side of the TLM, but till then, we continue to fight the good fight. www.clevelandtlmfriends.com/a-golden-era-is-coming-to-a-close/Better one than none. Having the shrine served by the ICKSP is actually probably not a bad idea. I know opinions vary on this, but there is also Father Leo Carley in Akron. He is associated in some way with the SSPX. I have assisted at one of his Masses before in West Virginia.
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Post by tisbearself on Aug 29, 2023 12:26:21 GMT
Well HSD, looks like maybe things aren't so rosy in the Diocese of Cleveland for the ol' TLM. Bishop Malesic wants these TLMs at St Elizabeth so he can get the ICKSP in there to run it and thus get it out from under the diocese. He wants the diocesan TLM to continue at St Stephen and one other place. Another church, Immaculate Conception, will hold their last TLM on Nov 1. Akron has lost its TLM. I am sure things will all come round right in the end, as both youth and money are on the side of the TLM, but till then, we continue to fight the good fight. www.clevelandtlmfriends.com/a-golden-era-is-coming-to-a-close/Better one than none. Having the shrine served by the ICKSP is actually probably not a bad idea. I know opinions vary on this, but there is also Father Leo Carley in Akron. He is associated in some way with the SSPX. I have assisted at one of his Masses before in West Virginia. When the Church removes access to the TLMs in a particular large area, it drives people right into the arms of the SSPX. Pope Benedict understood and appreciated this. Our current Pope either doesn't get it or doesn't care. Oh well.
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 30, 2023 2:36:18 GMT
Better one than none. Having the shrine served by the ICKSP is actually probably not a bad idea. I know opinions vary on this, but there is also Father Leo Carley in Akron. He is associated in some way with the SSPX. I have assisted at one of his Masses before in West Virginia. When the Church removes access to the TLMs in a particular large area, it drives people right into the arms of the SSPX. Pope Benedict understood and appreciated this. Our current Pope either doesn't get it or doesn't care. Oh well. To my knowledge, Pope Francis has never condemned the SSPX. In fact, when he was in Argentina, he spoke quite favorably of them. If he wanted to bring about a kind of merger of the SSPX and FSSP, and allow them to establish TLM locations with the permission of the bishop of the diocese in which they are established, I'd have no objection to that, in fact, if I were near one of them, that's where you'd find me. If such a scenario unfolded, it's probably a foregone conclusion that Bishop Huonder would go with them (he wouldn't even need to pack up his stuff and move anywhere, he's already their "guest" of sorts), and it wouldn't shock me to see Bishop Strickland do likewise.
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Post by ralfy on Aug 30, 2023 2:41:23 GMT
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Post by homeschooldad on Aug 30, 2023 2:48:33 GMT
Quite right, but I was talking about the SSPX (as well as allowing for some kind of merger, in that they are basically the same thing, one with full recognition, and the other with a kind of toleration, with faculties for several of the sacraments and a bishop living with them who is not under any kind of censure or penalty). Or they could remain separate entities.
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