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Post by homeschooldad on Sept 28, 2023 2:25:13 GMT
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Post by AveMaria on Sept 28, 2023 3:21:42 GMT
That's a good article.
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Post by homeschooldad on Sept 28, 2023 3:34:30 GMT
Indeed it is, short and to the point. The title had me going at first too. The deacon echoes what I always say --- try the TLM three times (he proposes a fourth time as well) and just see. Like your avatar. One of my favorite Popes. |
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Post by AveMaria on Sept 28, 2023 5:19:35 GMT
Like your avatar. One of my favorite Popes. My favorite by far. I have a strong devotion to the Holy Face and he promoted it, as well as approved it. |
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Post by ralfy on Sept 28, 2023 8:09:46 GMT
When there are translations, then you know that at least the vernacular should be used. In addition, the vernacular was used from the beginning, e.g., Aramaic and Greek. Various ancient manuscripts reveal that the early Church engaged in communal activity and even had things like Communion in the hand: www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2020/03/holy-communion-in-the-hand-norm-till-500-900-ad.htmlThe Church is a combination of the "other-worldly" and the worldly, and has been from the beginning. One of the reasons for communal activity is unity in worship, and beyond. "Ordinary music" was said to have been used by the early Church, and for them, it was not ancient. The reason why the Liturgy of the Word is part of the Mass is not because it's a glorified Sunday school but because the Word is an integral part of faith. There are lay ministers because there's a significant lack of clergy worldwide. The calendar has been "strange" from the beginning. According to Pope Benedict XVI, there EF and OF are one and the same rite. In short, both are "incurably and enternally Catholic." Meanwhile, the OF is based on ancient liturgies as well: www.patheos.com/blogs/voxnova/2007/07/07/pope-benedict-xvi-likes-the-novus-ordo/Finally, it's actually the Mass of Paul VI, not the "Novus Ordo." The phrase likely describes it as being new (_Novus Ordo Missae_). To make things shorter, Pope Benedict XVI refers to it as the Ordinary Form or the OF. Also, the Church pushed for more Bible study and readings starting in the nineteenth century, together with better scholarship and translations. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Sept 28, 2023 16:59:10 GMT
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Post by ralfy on Sept 29, 2023 1:33:54 GMT
OF is even shorter, and for the TLM the EF. www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.htmlThus, according to Pope Benedict XVI, the OF and EF are one and the same rite. What applies to one applies to the other, which means many of the points raised in the article shared are questionable. Given that, why allow the EF? Because according to Pope Benedict XVI, some miss it. That's basically it. Why did Pope St. John Paul II allow it? From what I remember, the reason was the same: www.nytimes.com/1984/10/16/world/pope-authorizes-limited-use-of-latin-mass-banned-in-63.htmlPope Francis fulfills what the two desired, which is why we now have the TC. But why the OF? Pope Benedict VI gives several reasons here: www.patheos.com/blogs/voxnova/2007/07/07/pope-benedict-xvi-likes-the-novus-ordo/I think the gist is that the OF was brought about by discoveries of ancient liturgies and practices which reveal that was is considered modern today turns out to be ancient, including the use of the vernacular and communal activities. This allows for fuller participation. Second, the Council of Trent saw it as possible, which means far from being a contradiction Vatican II is a fulfillment of both Trent and what the Church desires. Third, contrary to the claim that one does not need to know what one says or reads, one does, which is why the vernacular is used only only for the Mass but even for Catechism and the Bible. Want to bring in Latin? Make it a requirement for Catholics. Fourth, there is more to the Church as a congregation. It is also a community. Not only the ancients but even Protestant brethren know that. Finally, there is the Word, which was not mentioned but is an intergral part of faith and action. This is very obvious for the Church, whose teachings are based on the Magisterium and Scriptures, and known from early days. |
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