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Post by Dominic on Oct 9, 2023 20:35:16 GMT
Westboro or no Westboro, there are a lot of extremist LGBT activists who hate Christianity with a passion. They hate "Christianity" with a passion, the pseudo-religious perversity that is nothing but an excuse for homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia, and hatred that has, unfortunately, sullied the reputation of real Christianity in the public eye and is the greatest enemy of true Christianity. And they hate it for good reason. I hate it, too. And so does Pope Francis, who is now flushing that turd down the toilet of ovlivion, where it belongs. God grant him many more years so that he can finish the task, shut the lid, and put a cinder block on top so that it never slithers out again. When I look at the "Westboro" wing of the Catholic Church, I recognize nothing that even faintly resembles the teachings of Christ or the holy tradition of the Church. Rather, I see its very antithesis, the masterpiece of Satan himself. The den of vipers that our Lord decried. My prayers are with Pope Francis as he sallies forth on his holy mission to purge centuries of accumulated muck from the Augean Stables. Finally, we have a pope with the ability and the courage to tackle that unholy mess. May he finish the building a temple worthy of our Lord on the foundations laid down by Pope Saint John XXIII! Vivat! Vivat! Ad multos annos!
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 9, 2023 20:35:22 GMT
At least the altar was destroyed. That is not always the case in the modern church.
As far as I am aware, the altar mentioned in this report still remains and no exorcism has been carried out (though I stand to be hopefully corrected)
"Altar sex act by man in priest vestments is caught on camera
Gardaí investigate 'sacrilege'"
The desecrated altar at St. Bartholomew in Kildorerry, diocese of Cloyne, was likely built between 1830 and 1850 and as such is likely subject to historical protection or otherwise it's not feasible from an historic perspective to just take it out and smash it up and put in a new one. The altar at the church in US where same thing happened was quite new and simply designed, so it was easy to chuck it out and burn it and put in a whole new altar. My understanding is that in the event of desecration of an altar, then the bishop just needs to do a special penitential rite, as they did at St. Peter's recently after a naked man jumped on the altar. apnews.com/article/vatican-ukraine-altar-st-peter-desecration-98c8f3e617c922c2d4939fbf254283af This is further required by canon law, so I would imagine the bishop of Cloyne did the rite and it just wasn't put in the newspapers, or not the ones available to us to read online. Perhaps the guvnor is aware of some additional coverage or information available only in Ireland. The bishop in USA who had the altar ripped out and destroyed technically did not need to do that according to Code of Canon Law Canons 1211-1212, as the altar had not been permanently turned over to profane use, nor was it destroyed by the priest and two prostitutes using it for a sex act. The US bishop likely went further that what was required because it was relatively easy to remove and replace the altar. But it is not necessary to do that every time. The special penitential rite is enough. Even if the bishop did go above and beyond, as he seems to have done, still, his act spoke volumes. I don’t have an issue with it.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 9, 2023 20:37:18 GMT
The desecrated altar at St. Bartholomew in Kildorerry, diocese of Cloyne, was likely built between 1830 and 1850 and as such is likely subject to historical protection or otherwise it's not feasible from an historic perspective to just take it out and smash it up and put in a new one. The altar at the church in US where same thing happened was quite new and simply designed, so it was easy to chuck it out and burn it and put in a whole new altar. My understanding is that in the event of desecration of an altar, then the bishop just needs to do a special penitential rite, as they did at St. Peter's recently after a naked man jumped on the altar. apnews.com/article/vatican-ukraine-altar-st-peter-desecration-98c8f3e617c922c2d4939fbf254283af This is further required by canon law, so I would imagine the bishop of Cloyne did the rite and it just wasn't put in the newspapers, or not the ones available to us to read online. Perhaps the guvnor is aware of some additional coverage or information available only in Ireland. The bishop in USA who had the altar ripped out and destroyed technically did not need to do that according to Code of Canon Law Canons 1211-1212, as the altar had not been permanently turned over to profane use, nor was it destroyed by the priest and two prostitutes using it for a sex act. The US bishop likely went further that what was required because it was relatively easy to remove and replace the altar. But it is not necessary to do that every time. The special penitential rite is enough. Even if the bishop did go above and beyond, as he seems to have done, still, his act spoke volumes. I don’t have an issue with it. Neither do I. It was the bishop's choice to make. At the same time, like I said there's a difference between ripping out some crummy 1970s altar and replacing it with one that's probably nicer, and ripping out the altar at an historic and probably listed church from the 1830s, or the main altar at St. Peter's Basilica. Think what a bad message it would send if the profaners of the world knew that if they took off their clothes and jumped on an historic or expensive altar or had sex on it, the Church would have to rip it out and destroy it. You'd have people visiting all the historic cathedrals and basilicas of the world just to desecrate the altars and cost the Church money and effort. Indeed, it might be better to avoid publicizing such shenanigans as much as possible, in order to avoid encouraging copycats.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 9, 2023 20:55:23 GMT
Even if the bishop did go above and beyond, as he seems to have done, still, his act spoke volumes. I don’t have an issue with it. Neither do I. It was the bishop's choice to make. At the same time, like I said there's a difference between ripping out some crummy 1970s altar and replacing it with one that's probably nicer, and ripping out the altar at an historic and probably listed church from the 1830s, or the main altar at St. Peter's Basilica. Think what a bad message it would send if the profaners of the world knew that if they took off their clothes and jumped on an historic or expensive altar or had sex on it, the Church would have to rip it out and destroy it. You'd have people visiting all the historic cathedrals and basilicas of the world just to desecrate the altars and cost the Church money and effort. Indeed, it might be better to avoid publicizing such shenanigans as much as possible, in order to avoid encouraging copycats. Agreed. I should have been explicit in saying that a modern, stripped down, unadorned altar, was not that much lost. Sadly, it will probably be replaced with something just like it. But at the end of the day, an altar is an altar.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 9, 2023 22:44:45 GMT
I shall look tomorrow and see if I can find some more coverage on this. Ireland has numerous local newspapers so I shall see what I can find there.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 10, 2023 14:22:48 GMT
I've looked for a good thirty minutes here and there doesn't seem to be great more info on the altar being desecrated in Cloyne. What is worrying is that I did a search on YouTube and there are a number of videos dedicated to telling people how to desecrate altars effectively on there.
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bluekumul
Full Member
Christian humanist, democratic socialist, world citizen
Posts: 200
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Post by bluekumul on Oct 10, 2023 18:47:26 GMT
Westboro or no Westboro, there are a lot of extremist LGBT activists who hate Christianity with a passion. They hate "Christianity" with a passion, the pseudo-religious perversity that is nothing but an excuse for homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia, and hatred that has, unfortunately, sullied the reputation of real Christianity in the public eye and is the greatest enemy of true Christianity. Too many LGBT activists use words like "homophobia", "victimization", "discrimination", etc. to silence anybody who disagrees with their self-absorbed, hedonistic lifestyle. Is criticism of Putin anti-Russian prejudice? Is criticism of black gangsters anti-Black prejudice?
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 12, 2023 20:29:58 GMT
At this point, I have split the thread out under a new heading, in the "General Catholic Discussion" sub-forum.
Thread drift is not necessarily a bad thing, but at this point, the discussion took on a life of its own, and began to depart from the original topic concerning the desecration of a cathedral.
I ask everyone to continue this discussion in the new thread.
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