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Post by iagosan on Oct 8, 2023 6:07:22 GMT
Fr. John Zuhlsdorf has posted a very interesting blog entry regarding the recent visit of Cindy McCain to the Vatican and the significance of her gift to Pope Francis.
"Would it be a Synod “Walking Together” without an other demon idol?
Posted on 7 October 2023 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf"
wdtprs.com/2023/10/would-it-be-a-synod-walking-together-without-an-other-demon-idol/
Here she is in all her gory... (The idol I mean,-not Cindy) !
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 8, 2023 12:05:22 GMT
Kachina figures are a collectible/ souvenir folk art item in the SW US, and most people who buy them don't use them ritually, they're just to sit on a table for decoration. I suspect the only reason this doesn't get criticized as cultural misappropriation is that the creators and/ or sellers are probably Native Americans and it's a moneymaker for them.
I also think the Pope probably takes very little interest in most of the gunk he is gifted and it would be nice if future Popes put in place a "no gifts" policy rather than amassing warehouses of useless works of artsy craftsy expensive junk.
Having said that, if one wanted to gift the Pope a Kachina figure, there are plenty of peaceful ones not wielding weapons. I have no idea why a gift giver would choose this particular one out of literally hundreds of options.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 8, 2023 19:48:22 GMT
Kachina figures are a collectible/ souvenir folk art item in the SW US, and most people who buy them don't use them ritually, they're just to sit on a table for decoration. I suspect the only reason this doesn't get criticized as cultural misappropriation is that the creators and/ or sellers are probably Native Americans and it's a moneymaker for them. I also think the Pope probably takes very little interest in most of the gunk he is gifted and it would be nice if future Popes put in place a "no gifts" policy rather than amassing warehouses of useless works of artsy craftsy expensive junk. Having said that, if one wanted to gift the Pope a Kachina figure, there are plenty of peaceful ones not wielding weapons. I have no idea why a gift giver would choose this particular one out of literally hundreds of options. Better just to give him a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle bourbon, as a priest from Kentucky did a few years ago. That stuff goes for several hundred dollars a bottle. The Pope directed that the bourbon be resold, and the proceeds given to charity. Right decision. I've always wanted to try it, but it's way out of my budget. I take maybe a double shot of bourbon, neat or over ice, once or twice a year, for a special occasion such as Father's Day or Christmas. |
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 8, 2023 20:58:05 GMT
Pope should have just asked over whichever rich people wanted a shot of bourbon and everybody including the Pope throws some large chunk of personal change in the pot for charity and does a shot. I'd throw down $ to do a shot with the Pope.
Food and drink gifts are best, the Pope can always share them (if it's not booze he could share with some poor people and have a party) or sell them.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 8, 2023 21:58:46 GMT
I'm aware of Kachina figures. They are somewhat like Domovoi figures you find in Russian and Other Slavic households. People still keep them around out of affection for the legend but they most certainly don't believe they are really helping to tidy the house. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomovoyYou also have the Kikimora: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikimora#Works_cited |
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Post by Dominic on Oct 8, 2023 22:31:56 GMT
Pope should have just asked over whichever rich people wanted a shot of bourbon and .... Or invite them over for some roast chestnuts for Halloween! Like Alexander VI and his son Cesare were rumored to have done (Cesare was a Cardinal at the time). That must have been a real party! www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends-europe/banquet-chestnuts-0015542 |
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 9, 2023 5:51:54 GMT
I'm aware of Kachina figures. They are somewhat like Domovoi figures you find in Russian and Other Slavic households. People still keep them around out of affection for the legend but they most certainly don't believe they are really helping to tidy the house. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomovoyYou also have the Kikimora: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikimora#Works_citedRight, I don’t think most people buying those Kachina figures see them as anything other than a quaint tradition. There’s probably a handful of indigenous people who take them seriously within a cultural context, and another handful of new age types who imbue them with personal spiritual meaning that probably deviates from their intended cultural meaning. |
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Post by iagosan on Oct 9, 2023 15:03:22 GMT
I have to say that the idol presented by Cindy McCain to Pope Francis looks rather suspiciously like the "Killer Priest" demon to me....His appearance stems from the Native American legend about the Priest Killer Kachina Spirit who carried out the beheading of a missionary Spanish priest during the Pueblo Revolt of 1680 when the pueblo Indians of New Mexico and Arizona revolted against the Catholic Church and its teachings. He is often shown with a bloodied knife in his right hand and the severed head in his left. Now whether the head is hidden in the Vatican media picture by his body or the little rascal has already discarded it, we may never know........... |
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