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Post by tisbearself on Oct 15, 2023 13:04:18 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67064894I get that priests might want to sub out some of the duties like graveside prayers. In the US, it is not uncommon for a permanent deacon rather than a priest to come to the funeral home to lead the prayer service at the wake. However, I also thought that every Catholic, or at least every Catholic in good standing, was entitled to a funeral Mass, which requires a priest. Are these priestless, Mass-less funerals going to be for people who either did not want a Mass, or were baptized Catholic but hadn't been to church in decades, or were possibly not Catholic but their immediate family is and wants the church service? I am presuming that any Catholic with the wherewithal to make a big donation would probably motivate the priest to show up and say Mass. But where does this leave the proverbial poor little old lady who was at Mass every Sunday like clockwork and often at Mass or prayer group on weekdays for years, who died broke and doesn't have money for a generous offering? Please explain this to me - I know that there have been many times when Catholics died in mission territory, at war, or during a time of religious oppression when they couldn't have a proper Catholic Mass said at their funeral, but this is not that situation. I also don't understand why they don't just ordain some permanent deacons rather than this "lay funeral volunteer" stuff.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 15, 2023 14:10:34 GMT
There are simply not enough priests to lead funeral Masses. The last time I looked there were twelve people studying to be priests at Maynooth and most of those were non-Irish. There are very, very few vocations coming forward in Ireland and most priests are at pensionable age or older. Also few people have an interest in becoming permanent deacons and there are significant hurdles to clear even if you are. You need a Master's Degree or equivalent in Ireland and the UK and quite a lot of cash in the bank and numerous other things before you can even apply.
The number of people interested in pursuing such roles is minimal as the faith declines in Ireland. Many people will bury parents then forget about the faith. That's becoming increasingly common.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 15, 2023 14:16:44 GMT
There are simply not enough priests to lead funeral Masses. The last time I looked there were twelve people studying to be priests at Maynooth and most of those were non-Irish. There are very, very few vocations coming forward in Ireland and most priests are at pensionable age or older. Also few people have an interest in becoming permanent deacons and there are significant hurdles to clear even if you are. You need a Master's Degree or equivalent in Ireland and the UK and quite a lot of cash in the bank and numerous other things before you can even apply. The number of people interested in pursuing such roles is minimal as the faith declines in Ireland. Many people will bury parents then forget about the faith. That's becoming increasingly common. So, when someone does want a Mass, they're just told "sorry, a funeral Mass is not available"? Also, why is there a requirement that a permanent deacon candidate have cash in the bank? That seems a bit odd. Is it to prevent people who have a profit motive from applying? |
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 15, 2023 15:37:30 GMT
They want you to be able to pay your own way as deacons positions carry no wage or stipend in most cases. That's another reason why no-one is taking them up much. The study program is five years plus and doing that and earning a living is rather difficult.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 15, 2023 16:29:02 GMT
Notice this from the article:
'There are currently 81 priests in full-time ministry in Down and Connor, 13 of whom are aged 70 and over.
The Diocese of Derry has 72 full-time priests, 12 of whom are over 70.
The more rural Diocese of Clogher has a much higher ratio of elderly clergy - more than half its 46 priests are 70 or over.
However, Clogher and many other dioceses still benefit from the support of retired priests who regularly return to the altar to help younger clerics.
Among them is Canon John McKenna, who celebrated his 88th birthday in May but still officiates at Masses every single day.'
They then talk about St Kieran's College in Kilkenny. This is in my father's home county and used to offer a route to good jobs or the clergy via scholarships for bright kids. Nowadays it has very, very few vocations. Something like two or three in the last few years.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 15, 2023 20:25:51 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67064894I get that priests might want to sub out some of the duties like graveside prayers. In the US, it is not uncommon for a permanent deacon rather than a priest to come to the funeral home to lead the prayer service at the wake. However, I also thought that every Catholic, or at least every Catholic in good standing, was entitled to a funeral Mass, which requires a priest. Are these priestless, Mass-less funerals going to be for people who either did not want a Mass, or were baptized Catholic but hadn't been to church in decades, or were possibly not Catholic but their immediate family is and wants the church service? I am presuming that any Catholic with the wherewithal to make a big donation would probably motivate the priest to show up and say Mass. But where does this leave the proverbial poor little old lady who was at Mass every Sunday like clockwork and often at Mass or prayer group on weekdays for years, who died broke and doesn't have money for a generous offering? Please explain this to me - I know that there have been many times when Catholics died in mission territory, at war, or during a time of religious oppression when they couldn't have a proper Catholic Mass said at their funeral, but this is not that situation. I also don't understand why they don't just ordain some permanent deacons rather than this "lay funeral volunteer" stuff. My father did not wish to have a funeral Mass, so a deacon from my parish came and offered crypt-side rites. A retired diocesan priest on the West Coast, who handles TLM Mass stipends for me, later offered a Traditional Latin Requiem Mass for him (sadly, I could not be present). We had no family members in the area --- all of his siblings were deceased --- and he was a very private person who did not wish others to know of his condition while he was living. We had no visitation, and I chose not to see him before he was interred, because I preferred to remember him from healthier days, and quite frankly, I know too much of what they do in the restoration process, and didn't wish to think of my father having undergone that. I visited his crypt just yesterday, I had to go to that side of town anyway, first time I'd been there in six months due to my mother's infirmity. I have made explicit arrangements for a Traditional Latin Requiem funeral Mass for myself, when that time comes. These arrangements are on file with my funeral director (I have pre-need) as well as with my estate trustee and attorney. |
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