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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 25, 2023 0:09:27 GMT
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 25, 2023 9:40:46 GMT
Oh come on, Pope Francis isn’t THAT bad. He’s Frank the Hippie Pope, not Martin Luther or a Borgia. There are also quite a few times he has upheld Church teaching.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 25, 2023 14:26:58 GMT
Oh come on, Pope Francis isn’t THAT bad. He’s Frank the Hippie Pope, not Martin Luther or a Borgia. There are also quite a few times he has upheld Church teaching. Martin Luther upheld the Immaculate Conception. Not so well-versed on the Borgia Popes, but I think their forte was personal moral turpitude (a problem Francis does not seem to have), not ambiguous re-imagining of Catholic doctrine, or leaving the faithful with the impression that they can take challenging aspects of Catholic moral theology cum grano salis.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 25, 2023 15:30:19 GMT
Oh come on, Pope Francis isn’t THAT bad. He’s Frank the Hippie Pope, not Martin Luther or a Borgia. There are also quite a few times he has upheld Church teaching. Martin Luther upheld the Immaculate Conception. Not so well-versed on the Borgia Popes, but I think their forte was personal moral turpitude (a problem Francis does not seem to have), not ambiguous re-imagining of Catholic doctrine, or leaving the faithful with the impression that they can take challenging aspects of Catholic moral theology cum grano salis.Martin Luther upholding the Immaculate Conception while throwing tons of other stuff out the window was the proverbial broken clock that's right twice a day. I'll freely state my opinion that Pope Francis is not a great leader and he likes to give ambiguous, Jesuitical statements that often confuse the faithful sheep. But at heart he is a faithful Catholic. He was probably a fine bishop for Argentina. He's just not a great Pope. That doesn't make him a heretic or evil. And when I start denouncing Popes, I'm not going to do it based on the word of some suspended about-to-be-laicized temperamental priest with a penchant for being shocking in order to get all eyes on him. Altman is the proverbial loose cannon and I am sure the more intelligent and rational clerics in the room such as Abp Schneider maintain a distance from him because who knows what he will do or say next.
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Post by Lost Sheep on Oct 25, 2023 15:41:34 GMT
Then what is with all this talk lately about the Church giving blessings to same sex "marriages"? That seems to fly in the face of Catholic teaching.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 25, 2023 15:44:06 GMT
The worst that could be said for Pope Francis is that he tends towards a particular type of vagueness. If this is Fr Altman again I have to say I found the bloke tiresome the first time around with his renderings of comic book heroes in particularly stupid ways.
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 25, 2023 16:13:28 GMT
That could be said about any Pope which has held the seat during your lifetime. A: It is not our call to make B: Our moral certitude in no way comes into play. What gets tiresome to me is Catholics, instead of trying to unify and better our Church, constantly look for ways to destroy or divide our Church. The "but if" "what if" that constantly crops up is certainly a lack of faith on the part of the questioners IMO. I believe if Christ himself was to walk the earth today, there would be some who would still "but if" and "what if" Christ himself. It certainly happened previously while he walked this earth, no reason to believe it wouldn't happen again, even from those who claim to members of the Church.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 25, 2023 16:16:35 GMT
That could be said about any Pope which has held the seat during your lifetime. A: It is not our call to make B: Our moral certitude in no way comes into play.
I actually do not disagree with you on either of these points.
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 25, 2023 16:20:00 GMT
Then what is with all this talk lately about the Church giving blessings to same sex "marriages"? That seems to fly in the face of Catholic teaching. The Church doesn't bless same sex marriages. Where did you get that idea from? Have individual priests conferred blessings on same sex couples, it would appear so, but an individual priest isn't the Church. Individual priest have certainly been guilty of not following Church teaching throughout the centuries. Nothing new here. Blessing a person, is not blessing the sin.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 25, 2023 16:20:41 GMT
The worst that could be said for Pope Francis is that he tends towards a particular type of vagueness. If this is Fr Altman again I have to say I found the bloke tiresome the first time around with his renderings of comic book heroes in particularly stupid ways. Fr Altman isn't mentioned anywhere in this article. Actually I find Fr Altman kind of off-putting. With the editing done on that video (different camera angles that, quite frankly, remind me of something Leni Riefenstahl would have done), and his odd haircut, he makes me think of the demagogue played by Andy Griffith in the film A Face In The Crowd. This is a thoughtful, well-written article that grapples with the question of sede vacante in an intelligent, scholarly fashion. A lot of food for thought here.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 25, 2023 17:59:48 GMT
The worst that could be said for Pope Francis is that he tends towards a particular type of vagueness. If this is Fr Altman again I have to say I found the bloke tiresome the first time around with his renderings of comic book heroes in particularly stupid ways. Fr Altman isn't mentioned anywhere in this article. Actually I find Fr Altman kind of off-putting. With the editing done on that video (different camera angles that, quite frankly, remind me of something Leni Riefenstahl would have done), and his odd haircut, he makes me think of the demagogue played by Andy Griffith in the film A Face In The Crowd. This is a thoughtful, well-written article that grapples with the question of sede vacante in an intelligent, scholarly fashion. A lot of food for thought here. Altman is in the article by/ about Schneider that is linked in the article you posted. www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/bishop-schneider-nobody-has-the-power-to-judge-francis-status-as-pope/But if that's too far of a reach, then I'll just say I've thought Vigano has had a screw loose for many years. He has done nothing to disabuse me of that notion. I was actually hoping he'd show up and speak at the Baltimore CM rally a couple years back, but he didn't appear, not even by remote video link (given that the pandemic could have impeded his ability to travel at that time). Schneider is the only person in that article whom I actually respect and think is sane and intelligent, which is why I clicked the link to read the additional article concerning him. The Schneider article was well-written and interesting.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 25, 2023 18:03:00 GMT
Then what is with all this talk lately about the Church giving blessings to same sex "marriages"? That seems to fly in the face of Catholic teaching. The Church doesn't bless same sex marriages. Where did you get that idea from? Probably the 500 headlines in the secular media that reported Pope Francis was "open" to the idea of blessing same-sex marriages. A few of them went even further and claimed he actually approved of the idea.
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Post by farronwolf on Oct 25, 2023 18:32:28 GMT
The Church doesn't bless same sex marriages. Where did you get that idea from? Probably the 500 headlines in the secular media that reported Pope Francis was "open" to the idea of blessing same-sex marriages. A few of them went even further and claimed he actually approved of the idea. Just because someone reports something, it shouldn't be believed necessarily, especially regarding Church matters. Heck, much of the world believes we pray to Mary as if she is a god. Should we question the Church/Pope's stance on that as well? I know many parents warned children of not believing everything they here or read.
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 25, 2023 18:46:36 GMT
Probably the 500 headlines in the secular media that reported Pope Francis was "open" to the idea of blessing same-sex marriages. A few of them went even further and claimed he actually approved of the idea. Just because someone reports something, it shouldn't be believed necessarily, especially regarding Church matters. Heck, much of the world believes we pray to Mary as if she is a god. Should we question the Church/Pope's stance on that as well? I know many parents warned children of not believing everything they here or read. I personally think 99 percent of what I read in the media about the Church, the Supreme Court, and politics is bulloney. However, a great many people, including many Catholics, trust certain media believed to be "reliable", such as the WaPo, the NYT, major news networks etc. To be fair, it does also seem that Pope Francis is looking for some way he can give a blessing to gay couples that goes beyond blessing each person as an individual (which they could get simply by showing up at the end of Mass when the priest blesses everybody in attendance), but doesn't constitute blessing their "marriage" which the Church does not recognize as a marriage. Pope Francis has also not punished or done much to stop the German bishops who keep conducting gay marriage blessing ceremonies, thus leaving the impression that either the Church is okay with thi or it's not that bad.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 25, 2023 23:00:56 GMT
Just because someone reports something, it shouldn't be believed necessarily, especially regarding Church matters. Heck, much of the world believes we pray to Mary as if she is a god. Should we question the Church/Pope's stance on that as well? I know many parents warned children of not believing everything they here or read. To be fair, it does also seem that Pope Francis is looking for some way he can give a blessing to gay couples that goes beyond blessing each person as an individual (which they could get simply by showing up at the end of Mass when the priest blesses everybody in attendance), but doesn't constitute blessing their "marriage" which the Church does not recognize as a marriage. Yes, that's what he's trying to do, but the optics are horrible. To any casual observer with even the slightest inclination to think other than roses about the Catholic Church, it looks like the relationship as a whole is being blessed, the homo-sex and all. They're not going to get into all the Jesuitical hair-splitting, making fine distinctions, and so on. You can "spin" anything.
There is such a thing as giving scandal.
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