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Post by blackforest on Nov 22, 2023 22:01:43 GMT
Um, OK? I wouldn't call it fun. But yes, CM is as subject to my criticism as much as anyone else's. And they've done a lot to criticize. The best description I've heard of them is that their the website of "Guess who's been a naughty Catholic this week?" So on those grounds, yes - that whole who-am-I-to-judge approach is the right and charitable one to take. But I agree with farronwolf that it's spiritually challenging to do toward a man who's made judging others essentially his life's work. I'm left to wonder what would happen if they (and Catholics like them) dedicated all of the energy they expend toward bashing the Pope to actually *praying for him?* How much stronger would our Church become then? |
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 23, 2023 10:36:05 GMT
"Guess who's been a naughty Catholic this week?"
It's me! Well, that's every week according to the missus, but then again:
Why can't a woman be more like a man?
Men are so honest, so thoroughly square;
Eternally noble, historic'ly fair;
Who, when you win, will always give your back a pat.
Well, why can't a woman be like that?
Why does ev'ryone do what the others do?
Can't a woman learn to use her head?
Why do they do ev'rything their mothers do?
Why don't they grow up- well, like their father instead?
Why can't a woman take after a man?
Men are so pleasant, so easy to please;
Whenever you are with them, you're always at ease.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 23, 2023 11:29:36 GMT
Criticizing the Pope and praying for him are not mutually exclusive. Most of the practicing Catholics I meet do both. An easy way to remember to pray for the Pope is to simply say the first Our Father of the Rosary for the Pope. Many Rosary groups around here do just that. Another easy way is to devoutly attend Mass, as the Pope is prayed for during the General Intercessions and again during the Eucharistic Prayer.
Fr Stephen Imbarrato recently said that when you die, God won't ask whether you liked the Pope or didn't like the Pope, but only whether you prayed for the Pope.
People who are serious prayer warriors also embrace the concept of praying for people they don't like or who they think may be acting inappropriately. I daresay the Pope's critics probably pray for him more than his fans, because taken as a whole and allowing for individual exceptions, the Pope's critics tend to say more prayers in general and people are also more likely to be motivated to pray when they dislike what's going on rather than when they like it.
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Post by tth1 on Nov 23, 2023 13:42:10 GMT
I think Fr Zuhlsdorf wrote a good blog post about Vorris. Basically he's saying let him without sin cast the first stone. He also says we shouldn't kick a man when he's down. We've all made mistakes and we're all sinners. We need to remember that. |
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Post by theguvnor on Nov 23, 2023 14:22:58 GMT
Yes, Voris made a mistake and committed a sin. Rubbing hands over it gleefully is not a good look. We all have our own sins to deal with.
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Post by blackforest on Nov 23, 2023 22:14:49 GMT
Criticizing the Pope and praying for him are not mutually exclusive. The purpose of prayer under these circumstances is to trust God to work in the life of Pope Francis and for the good of the Church . . . which will prevail no matter how much online whining we read. The pee-and-vinegar vitriol at CM just doesn't square with this objective; those who pray and trust God live with a much greater sense of peace than what's coming out of this site. |
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Post by blackforest on Nov 23, 2023 22:15:52 GMT
I think Fr Zuhlsdorf wrote a good blog post about Vorris. Basically he's saying let him without sin cast the first stone. He also says we shouldn't kick a man when he's down. We've all made mistakes and we're all sinners. We need to remember that. As discussed in this thread, nobody disagrees with this notion.
What puzzles me is they the bloggers at CM - and their cheerleaders among lay Catholics - seem to struggle with this concept. I hope they come to live up to their own standard, showing as much mercy on their targets as they expect the Rest of Us to show toward Mr. Vorris. Those who've dedicated their blog to demonizing "bad Catholics" are now asking everybody not to judge one of their own. On this front, I'm seeing a disheartening level of moral hypocrisy from reactionary Catholics.
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Post by tisbearself on Nov 23, 2023 22:51:51 GMT
Criticizing the Pope and praying for him are not mutually exclusive. The purpose of prayer under these circumstances is to trust God to work in the life of Pope Francis and for the good of the Church . . . which will prevail no matter how much online whining we read. The pee-and-vinegar vitriol at CM just doesn't square with this objective; those who pray and trust God live with a much greater sense of peace than what's coming out of this site. No offense, but you seem to think somebody has to agree with you and be moral according to your own standards in order to sincerely pray. That ain't how it works. I don't think this convo between us is going anywhere productive, so I'll be muting now. Happy Thanksgiving. |
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Post by blackforest on Nov 24, 2023 2:08:36 GMT
No, it just logically follows that anyone praying for somebody doesn't turn around and stab them with combative, acerbic articles. That ain't how it works.
Something still isn't clear. (This isn't directed at Bear, who's no longer with us). Is Voris being dismissed for something he did in his 20s and 30s? And CM is just happening upon it? Or did he do something recently while their leader? The press isn't making it clear. Heaven forbid our past absolved transgressions come back to haunt us all as morality clause violations!
Hope everyone's Thanksgiving was happy and filling!
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Post by tth1 on Nov 25, 2023 13:50:53 GMT
I think Fr Zuhlsdorf wrote a good blog post about Vorris. Basically he's saying let him without sin cast the first stone. He also says we shouldn't kick a man when he's down. We've all made mistakes and we're all sinners. We need to remember that. As discussed in this thread, nobody disagrees with this notion.
What puzzles me is they the bloggers at CM - and their cheerleaders among lay Catholics - seem to struggle with this concept. I hope they come to live up to their own standard, showing as much mercy on their targets as they expect the Rest of Us to show toward Mr. Vorris. Those who've dedicated their blog to demonizing "bad Catholics" are now asking everybody not to judge one of their own. On this front, I'm seeing a disheartening level of moral hypocrisy from reactionary Catholics.
What we're seeing is normal human behaviour: do as I say not as I do. We can all be guilty of hypocrisy and applying different standards to different situtations. It's the way of fallen human nature. That doesn't mean, of course, that we ought not to try and behave differently. We should. As Our Lord said, "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?". (Matt. 7:3, RSV(CE)) |
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