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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 3, 2024 17:37:14 GMT
As a courtesy, I don't usually make a practice of re-posting articles from another Catholic forum, but I found this one especially apt: www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/256382/fiducia-supplicans-not-a-topic-for-christmas-season-cardinal-saysGot to wonder how Rome is dealing with the African bishops turning on them. We're always being told how docile African Catholics are (translated: how horrible you Westerners are); perhaps their Churches are, for lack of a better word, maturing, such that they are more inclined to manifest their docility by being docile to the truth and to Catholic tradition. Tacit acquiescence to sodomy doesn't go along with their indigenous cultural mores either. Tant mieux.
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Post by tisbearself on Jan 3, 2024 17:54:42 GMT
You can repost articles from the closed forum any time you want. There's plenty of people reading here who aren't on that forum and can't read them there.
Likewise I repost articles from here over there so the many posters who don't visit here can see them.
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Post by ralfy on Jan 4, 2024 0:49:02 GMT
You need to learn to defend your points.
You didn't answer my question, but I will duly note that.
You accuse the Pope of being judgmental, and for proof require others to ask an unnamed woman to give valid reasons for treating an animal like a human being.
All you were asked to do was to state what those valid reasons are, and you couldn't even answer that question.
In short, you were not defending your points.
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Post by ralfy on Jan 4, 2024 0:57:38 GMT
It's a notable article because it explains FS correctly and then argues that it creates a mess because Catholics don't understand it. That means the Church has even bigger problems given the latter.
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Post by ralfy on Jan 4, 2024 1:05:34 GMT
This one argues that since the Pope refers to same-sex couples, then the blessing involves couples and not individuals. The implication is that the Pope should have referred to blessing homosexuals and not couples. But I think his dectractors also don't support that.
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Post by ralfy on Jan 4, 2024 1:09:38 GMT
As a courtesy, I don't usually make a practice of re-posting articles from another Catholic forum, but I found this one especially apt: www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/256382/fiducia-supplicans-not-a-topic-for-christmas-season-cardinal-saysGot to wonder how Rome is dealing with the African bishops turning on them. We're always being told how docile African Catholics are (translated: how horrible you Westerners are); perhaps their Churches are, for lack of a better word, maturing, such that they are more inclined to manifest their docility by being docile to the truth and to Catholic tradition. Tacit acquiescence to sodomy doesn't go along with their indigenous cultural mores either. Tant mieux.
I think homosexuality itself is considered a crime in several African countries.
About Catholic tradition, I get this feeling that among the undesirables mentioned in the NT, i.e., tax collectors, harlots, and lepers, there were also sodomites.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 1:37:42 GMT
You didn't answer my question, but I will duly note that.
You accuse the Pope of being judgmental, and for proof require others to ask an unnamed woman to give valid reasons for treating an animal like a human being.
All you were asked to do was to state what those valid reasons are, and you couldn't even answer that question.
In short, you were not defending your points.
You still didn't answer my question, and that's fine, I really don't care, that's between you and your conscience, and really none of my affair, but as to your comments, okay, I'll bite. It's kind of a waste of my time to do so, given that I have not spoken to the woman, but here goes: - She could suffer from depression or some other psychological malady, and the dog could be a huge comfort to her.
- She could love this little creature of God more than she has ever loved anyone else.
- She could have a psychological problem that prompts her to spoil her dog.
- She could reason that whatever money she spends on the dog is hers to spend as she pleases. (One person's wastefulness is another person's preference. My son spends what I see as a ridiculous amount on comic books, games, and so on --- he has an independent source of income that providentially fell into his lap and will last until he turns 18 --- but at least I know where he is and what he's doing, not out doing drugs, getting involved with gangs, getting drunk, out here "fooling around" with some girl, much worse things I could have to worry about, and I make sure that half of his income goes straight into his savings.)
- She could, for whatever reason, find this dog's company more pleasing than that of any human.
- She could be widowed and it could be her husband's dog, the only living thing she has that was somehow a part of him.
Or some other reason (or reasons) to which I'm not privy.
Or she might be acting in bad faith, saying "yes, I know I shouldn't do this, that I'm wasting money vainly, this is pretty bad, the Pope is right to upbraid me, but I'm a free agent, and... [insert further reasons for her action]". Hard to say.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended):
- People having an issue with two men (or two women) standing before a priest (as in the picture with Fr Martin), getting a blessing, with a high likelihood that they will go home and perform peccatum illud horribile inter christianos non nominandum, possibly even that evening --- "who am I to judge?"
- Some dowager lady who gets a little sickening over how she treats her dog (and it's the Pope who has an issue with it) --- "oh, that's okay, she had it coming"
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Post by tisbearself on Jan 4, 2024 2:11:19 GMT
At the risk of being snide, if it was two impoverished trans sex workers with a dog, the Pope would probably think it wonderful and invite them to bring the dog to dinner at the Vatican.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 5:55:47 GMT
At the risk of being snide, if it was two impoverished trans sex workers with a dog, the Pope would probably think it wonderful and invite them to bring the dog to dinner at the Vatican. Good one!
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 5:59:52 GMT
You can repost articles from the closed forum any time you want. There's plenty of people reading here who aren't on that forum and can't read them there. Likewise I repost articles from here over there so the many posters who don't visit here can see them. Thanks. Since we both participate in either forum, and serve as moderators respectively, I just thought of it as a kind of "professional courtesy", for lack of a better way of putting it, between lay Catholic armchair online apologists. As I always say, I'm just a somewhat educated hillbilly with a cheap laptop. I'm nobody. Though I see my role here as more of a caretaker, I have no objection to you re-posting articles from here onto the other place.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 16:47:41 GMT
And it just keeps coming: www.nasdaq.com/articles/vatican-moves-to-calm-bishops-over-same-sex-blessings-approvalSpin, spin, spin. Isn't this something? Here you have the Church, having outraged people all across the boards --- not just a surgical strike against the possibly less than 1-2% of Catholics who either assist at the Traditional Latin Mass or would if they knew more about it and/or had it available --- many of whom are in those same "peripheries" that she so prizes, telling them, in effect, "you aren't intellectually agile enough to handle nuance, just trust us, it's all okay". Pretty condescending if you ask me. And TLM adherents get accused of being elitist... And as for Protestants, quite the about-face. We've spent 60+ years trying to reach out to them, and now we're telling them that they're simpletons for having issues with FS. Good to know. They'll be glad to know that.
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Post by tisbearself on Jan 4, 2024 19:46:18 GMT
Did you see this quote from Fernandez in the full English version of his interview with Die Tagespost?
Unless the thing being returned to is the TLM...
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 20:24:52 GMT
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 4, 2024 20:31:28 GMT
Did you see this quote from Fernandez in the full English version of his interview with Die Tagespost? But.. but... but... isn't that indietrismo? Or does "moving forward" sometimes entail "moving back" (unless, as you point out, it's the TLM to which we're moving back)? A person could get spiritual whiplash by the time the change agents get through with everything they've got their cap set on. Hagan lío, indeed.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 5, 2024 1:49:00 GMT
It gets worse: www.catholicworldreport.com/2024/01/01/fiducia-supplicans-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/Talk about the law of unintended consequences!"Yes, the two of you can get a blessing, has to be kind of private, can't look like a wedding or anything, and we're just blessing the good things about the two of you, helping you to become holier, but that piece of parchment you're asking for, that thing with the Pope's picture on it and all that, well..." Sounds like they'll pretty much have to.
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