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Post by theguvnor on Jan 15, 2024 15:27:08 GMT
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/end-celibacy-and-bar-on-married-priests-or-risk-having-none-in-the-western-world-in-30-years-former-president-mary-mcaleese-argues/ar-AA1mZLU5?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=fe1a251f739c40b498171556cc646e63&ei=32'The Catholic Church must end celibacy and the bar on married priests or there will be none left in the western world in 30 years time, former President Mary McAleese has said. Mrs McAleese, currently chancellor of Trinity University, was speaking after a highly influential figure within the Vatican suggesting revising the requirement that priests be celibate. Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta, an adviser to Pope Francis, said: “If it were up to me, I would revise the requirement that priests have to be celibate. Experience has shown me that this is something we need to seriously think about.” ' Mary seems to have a rather imperialist view of the Church, it is quite possible to envisage a future in which many priests come from outside Europe. Indeed, many parishes in the UK have priest who are African or Sri Lankan right now. I also found this bit droll: 'Pope Francis has agreed there is no formal church doctrine on celibacy and marriage, and admitted a future pontiff may change the rules, but he has decided not to do so, Ms McAleese said, adding she believes the most “interesting possibilities” for the next Pope are from the “excellent leadership” in Belgium and Germany.'
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 15, 2024 21:22:54 GMT
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/end-celibacy-and-bar-on-married-priests-or-risk-having-none-in-the-western-world-in-30-years-former-president-mary-mcaleese-argues/ar-AA1mZLU5?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=fe1a251f739c40b498171556cc646e63&ei=32'The Catholic Church must end celibacy and the bar on married priests or there will be none left in the western world in 30 years time, former President Mary McAleese has said. Mrs McAleese, currently chancellor of Trinity University, was speaking after a highly influential figure within the Vatican suggesting revising the requirement that priests be celibate. Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta, an adviser to Pope Francis, said: “If it were up to me, I would revise the requirement that priests have to be celibate. Experience has shown me that this is something we need to seriously think about.” ' Mary seems to have a rather imperialist view of the Church, it is quite possible to envisage a future in which many priests come from outside Europe. Indeed, many parishes in the UK have priest who are African or Sri Lankan right now. I also found this bit droll: 'Pope Francis has agreed there is no formal church doctrine on celibacy and marriage, and admitted a future pontiff may change the rules, but he has decided not to do so, Ms McAleese said, adding she believes the most “interesting possibilities” for the next Pope are from the “excellent leadership” in Belgium and Germany.' The traditionalist seminaries that are having to turn men away would like a word. Even in the mainstream Novus Ordo environment, young priests and seminarians, at least in the decadent, dying West, skew heavily traditionalist/conservative/orthodox. And they love them those cassocks. Some are even into lace. (Horrors!) And they don't necessarily want to become fluent in Spanish and Vietnamese before they are allowed to study Latin. Those little scamps!And I am optimistic that as secular prospects for happiness dwindle for young men (well-paying jobs, marriage, ability to sustain a family, and so on), some will come to see the priesthood as a viable alternative. "Oh, but a vocation has to be pure, and not motivated by anything other than the sheer love of God" --- well, ultimately it has to be about that, but I'm of the philosophy that Almighty God often nudges us into where we need to be, by circumstances that are not what we would choose, and good attitude follows good behavior. Though it's not an exact analogy, I can see that in my own life right now. For the first time in my life, I am morally certain that I am precisely where I need to be, doing precisely what I am supposed to be doing --- caring for my mother in what are probably her final days, not in a nursing home with often-indolent staff who care for you when it's convenient for them (we saw enough of that in my mother's rehab, they left her alone, crying, scared, and depressed, for hours), total strangers, taking every penny you have. I am so thankful that I am retired, not on the other side of the country, not answerable to a wife and a passel of kids (just the one, and he's almost grown), in good health myself, it's as though I was placed in these circumstances. (I'm also getting the opportunity to atone and do penance for not always having been the best son in the world. What goes around comes around.) Perhaps God does likewise with young men who have a "failure to launch". Who can say? And maybe I'm the only one who sees this, but "back in the day", fidelity to Catholic teaching on marriage actually made it less attractive than it is for many today --- natural methods of conception avoidance were very crude and heavily prone to failure, and someone contemplating marriage had to deal with the likely prospect of having several children, the man busting his hump at possibly some very hard factory job, the wife having to stay at home and care for all those kids (thankfully, you could still trust any and all Catholic schools in those days, and the abundant religious vocations ensured a steady supply of teaching sisters who worked basically for room, board, benefits, and a small personal stipend (I think it was $20/month for the sisters who served my school, to buy personal care items and so on, that'd be more like $80/month now, still far lower than any salary)), and when child-having just got too much to stand, then it had to be total abstinence, possibly for many years. Add to that, if a woman did remain single in secular life, her job prospects were severely limited, it was basically nursing or teaching, and not everyone is suited to those fields. (My dear grandmother, not Catholic, had six children and was widowed at age 38. She had no education and three children still at home to raise, she had to clean house for people and made knitted goods that she sold door-to-door.) Contrast that with the most respectable line of work imaginable, you get a good education for free, all your basic needs in life taken care of, absolute job security, the only thing you have to give up is marriage and a degree of personal freedom, but aside from that, pretty good life if you ask me.
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Post by theguvnor on Jan 16, 2024 11:15:31 GMT
Mary is speaking from purely within a particular experience and attempting to scale it up. The experience of Catholicism the Irish had in Ireland is not even the same for all Irish people there, never mind members of the Irish diaspora or other Catholics. As the article notes this is in part a reaction to the fact Ireland is functionally slowly becoming essentially a nominally Catholic country. The number of people openly identifying as Catholic falls a few percentage points every few years and there is a great deal of hostility towards our faith among younger (and sometimes not so young) people. I've seen people called numerous four-letter words on social media and in real life for noting the Church did good and bad things in Ireland. I was told myself recently that I probably perform fellatio on the local priest daily when I noted the clergy vary in moral character. Except 'fellatio' wasn't how it was worded. Discussing anything to do with the Church in Ireland or on Irish-oriented forums is fraught with problems unless you choose to hold that chat with the most calm and well-educated individuals. In real life many middle-aged and older people who are Catholic in the UK and Ireland still do go to Mass and value their faith but we find talking about it difficult openly. In the UK talking about being Christian tends to get mocked or you get treated as an oddity. In Ireland if you identify as strongly Catholic with rare exceptions you are likely to face hostility eventually.
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Post by tisbearself on Jan 19, 2024 15:51:32 GMT
This McAleese woman has absolutely nothing to recommend her. I am completely uninterested in any statement she would ever make on anything. If I want to hear about married priests, I am more prone to listen to actual priests, bishops, even deacons.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jan 19, 2024 16:41:34 GMT
Mary is speaking from purely within a particular experience and attempting to scale it up. The experience of Catholicism the Irish had in Ireland is not even the same for all Irish people there, never mind members of the Irish diaspora or other Catholics. As the article notes this is in part a reaction to the fact Ireland is functionally slowly becoming essentially a nominally Catholic country. The number of people openly identifying as Catholic falls a few percentage points every few years and there is a great deal of hostility towards our faith among younger (and sometimes not so young) people. I've seen people called numerous four-letter words on social media and in real life for noting the Church did good and bad things in Ireland. I was told myself recently that I probably perform fellatio on the local priest daily when I noted the clergy vary in moral character. Except 'fellatio' wasn't how it was worded. Discussing anything to do with the Church in Ireland or on Irish-oriented forums is fraught with problems unless you choose to hold that chat with the most calm and well-educated individuals. In real life many middle-aged and older people who are Catholic in the UK and Ireland still do go to Mass and value their faith but we find talking about it difficult openly. In the UK talking about being Christian tends to get mocked or you get treated as an oddity. In Ireland if you identify as strongly Catholic with rare exceptions you are likely to face hostility eventually. Your friend doesn't mince any words, do they?
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Post by theguvnor on Jan 20, 2024 14:08:07 GMT
These comments were delivered in the context of an online forum. It is nearly pointless on some of those trying to acknowledge the good the Church did in Ireland and point out that it was staffed by human beings and was therefore likely to be imperfect. If you try and have a nuanced conversation about the particular ways it was rooted in Irish society that led to some of the problems that evolved in Ireland you may as well forget it. You will just be roundly insulted or called a 'pedo' or a defender of 'pedos' or similar stuff. Such conversations are only really possible between fairly calm and mature adults and a lot of people are relaying talking points from the media rather than thinking.
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