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Post by homeschooldad on Feb 23, 2024 16:42:08 GMT
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/02/the-church-and-freemasonry-secret.htmlEven based upon my numerous dealings with well-meaning, benign, honorable men in this country (including members of my own extended family) who have been associated with American Freemasonry (and, one hopes and prays, are unaware of deeper issues), there is always an undercurrent that they thirst for the Catholic Church to recognize Freemasonry as legitimate. (They will also try to work it into the conversation that any one man's path to God is just as good as any other man's path. Get to talking to one of them long enough, and you'll see.) Now, sadly, the post-Vatican II Church seems now to have a similar thirst for Freemasonry to approve of her. Not good. (And, as a kind of side issue, Freemasonry is quite popular among African Americans, at least in my part of the country, as well as with law enforcement.)
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Post by farronwolf on Feb 23, 2024 21:34:44 GMT
How is it a secret meeting when folks knew about it.
The Church is clear that Freemasonry is not compatible with Church teachings, and Catholics are not to be in the organization.
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Post by homeschooldad on Feb 23, 2024 23:01:20 GMT
How is it a secret meeting when folks knew about it. The Church is clear that Freemasonry is not compatible with Church teachings, and Catholics are not to be in the organization. I wondered that myself. Nonetheless, the article is well worth reading. |
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Post by iagosan on Feb 27, 2024 8:45:46 GMT
How is it a secret meeting when folks knew about it. The Church is clear that Freemasonry is not compatible with Church teachings, and Catholics are not to be in the organization. Yes, the Catholic Church believes and teaches that.
Which therefore begs the questions, that if these people truly believed that teaching, why would they have been engaged in this dialogue for years, who exactly are they and what is their objective?
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Post by homeschooldad on Feb 27, 2024 12:31:33 GMT
How is it a secret meeting when folks knew about it. The Church is clear that Freemasonry is not compatible with Church teachings, and Catholics are not to be in the organization. Yes, the Catholic Church believes and teaches that.
Which therefore begs the questions, that if these people truly believed that teaching, why would they have been engaged in this dialogue for years, who exactly are they and what is their objective?
Good point. Putting the best possible light on it, one can think of it as a flavor of ecumenism, in that Freemasonry, though they'll deny it, is a religion, and one with which we share some tenets (belief in a Supreme Being, pursuit of moral rectitude and integrity, bettering the lot of mankind, and so on) on the one hand, but with which we have irreconcilable differences on the other hand. There is probably no harm in seeking common ground where such common ground can be had, as long as we go into it with eyes wide open and realize that, at the end of the day, Catholicism and Freemasonry are at odds and always will be. I have no issue with Shriners' Children's Hospitals, and indeed do not mind making a small donation when asked, but as to asserting that one man's religion is as good as any other's, and being at peace with dark secrets about worshipping Jahbulon and worse, not going to happen. Freemasonry is really a form of Gnosticism, where esoteric secrets exist at the higher realms, whereas Catholicism has no secret tenets, it's all out in the open, and anyone can walk into a library and read about everything the Church teaches. There are less benign speculations about why Catholicism and Freemasonry would seek some sort of peace and reconciliation, but I won't wade into those fever swamps here. I wouldn't run into a burning house either to defend, or to refute, speculations as to whether this churchman, or that one, was (or is) a secret Freemason or not, either way, it doesn't affect my Faith one iota. We can never go wrong adhering to the traditional Catholic Faith. If this churchman or that one has "gone over to the dark side", I can't do anything about that. |
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Post by iagosan on Feb 28, 2024 6:22:23 GMT
Yes, the Catholic Church believes and teaches that.
Which therefore begs the questions, that if these people truly believed that teaching, why would they have been engaged in this dialogue for years, who exactly are they and what is their objective?
Good point. Putting the best possible light on it, one can think of it as a flavor of ecumenism, in that Freemasonry, though they'll deny it, is a religion, and one with which we share some tenets (belief in a Supreme Being, pursuit of moral rectitude and integrity, bettering the lot of mankind, and so on) on the one hand, but with which we have irreconcilable differences on the other hand. There is probably no harm in seeking common ground where such common ground can be had, as long as we go into it with eyes wide open and realize that, at the end of the day, Catholicism and Freemasonry are at odds and always will be. I have no issue with Shriners' Children's Hospitals, and indeed do not mind making a small donation when asked, but as to asserting that one man's religion is as good as any other's, and being at peace with dark secrets about worshipping Jahbulon and worse, not going to happen. Freemasonry is really a form of Gnosticism, where esoteric secrets exist at the higher realms, whereas Catholicism has no secret tenets, it's all out in the open, and anyone can walk into a library and read about everything the Church teaches. There are less benign speculations about why Catholicism and Freemasonry would seek some sort of peace and reconciliation, but I won't wade into those fever swamps here. I wouldn't run into a burning house either to defend, or to refute, speculations as to whether this churchman, or that one, was (or is) a secret Freemason or not, either way, it doesn't affect my Faith one iota. We can never go wrong adhering to the traditional Catholic Faith. If this churchman or that one has "gone over to the dark side", I can't do anything about that. Possibly,possibly..... The ever thought provoking New Daily Compass (La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana), however, has a rather different suggestion:
but the conclusion is worth posting here:
"....at least those that are founded on Christian rites.
What was Staglianò's response? Well, on doctrine there is little to be done, the difference between Church and Freemasonry is too obvious. But then there is life and, above all, there is the Mercy of God, whose blessing "falls on the just and the unjust": it is then God who will ultimately judge how it has been received. There was a clear reason that the Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy, Stefano Bisi, had referred to the openness towards gay couples and remarried divorcees; and Staglianò used the example of Fiducia Supplicans with the blessing for gay couples to explain the issue of Mercy that applies to all.
It must be said that from a logical point of view, Bisi's discourse is perfectly legitimate: if we are all sinners and all must be welcomed into the Church with full rights, why are irregular couples yes and Freemasons no? As with gay unions, one could always say that it is not Freemasonry that is blessed but individual Freemasons. And in fact Staglianò does not defend this discrimination, rather he lays the groundwork to overcome it. Including the final invocation of a "healthy sapiential theology" that goes beyond the doctrinal approach that the latest document of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith published last November is still steeped in.
If one has the patience - and the willingness to make a sacrifice - to listen to Monsignor Staglianò's entire speech and contextualise it, one will not fail to notice the important opening made, which culminated in Cardinal Coccopalmerio's proposal to create a "permanent table" Church-Masonry. In short, the now familiar pattern is repeated: gender ideology is condemned, but then organised groups of gays and trans people are made to feel at home in the Vatican; women's diaconate is rejected, but then commissions are set up to study it and no action is taken in those European countries where women also act as parish priests; the importance of maintaining priestly celibacy is upheld, but then it is agreed to discuss it. And so on.
Now it is the turn of Freemasonry. This is the matter on which Staglianò should give a convincing explanation: if he really believes that the Church and Freemasonry "are profoundly irreconcilable", why has he been engaged in this dialogue for years, which he would now even like to be raised to a higher level? What is the point of continuing to hold conferences and even a 'permanent table' to say that we are irreconcilable and that the Church is right in condemning Freemason"
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Post by homeschooldad on Feb 28, 2024 13:18:36 GMT
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Post by AveMaria on Mar 3, 2024 4:51:14 GMT
Masons stirring the pot during Lent.
No surprise.
The St Patrick Cathedral stunt.
Ditto
Never fails. The Devil desperately trying to sow doubt.
Lent, Advent. Even Francis' favorite times to mess with trads. Most recently, the FSSP.
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