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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 6, 2024 14:20:32 GMT
www.npr.org/2024/03/06/1228580178/nikki-haley-drops-out-presidential-campaign-trump-bidenI only file this under "Catholic News" because the beginning of human life that merits protection, is ultimately a Catholic issue. Much, possibly most, of the rest of the world has a "blind spot" about the humanity of the newly-fertilized ovum (for one thing, that would rule out contraceptives that are at least potentially abortifacients, and couples would then be left only with condoms, the disgusting practice of coitus interruptus which is very ineffective to boot, and NFP, which requires often considerable sacrifice and ultimately openness to life if Our Lord should will a conception in spite of a couple's wishes and best efforts), and the moral non-liciety of producing life outside of nature and of the womb, and truth be told, at that point it becomes much more a theological issue than anything else. I don't see us ever being able to outlaw abortion from the moment of conception, unless the US electorate would convert en masse to orthodox Catholicism, or at least those Christian bodies who also believe that human life begins at conception, and is worthy of legal protection as robust as you would give to children already born. X-number of weeks' cutoffs may be the best we can do until then. Better to save some than none. Haley lost me the other morning when she came out firmly in favor of IVF on Meet The Press. She and her husband conceived their children using IVF. Look, I get it, people want a child but can't make it happen in the natural way. For some time I was concerned myself, that my wife and I might not be able to conceive naturally, and we had at least one miscarriage (probably more than that). I also had a health scare a couple of decades back, and thought I might have testicular cancer and might not be able to father children after the surgery. (As it turned out, the lump was just a hydrocele that disappeared naturally.) I stayed up all night agonizing, studying Jone (yes, Jone), trying to see if there would be any morally licit way for me to have my gametes stored before my manhood was excised (as Celine Dion and René Angélil did), to be able to father a child via IVF or artificial insemination, but there is not. I stared into the abyss and found only the Divine Will. Sobering. ( Les Angélil, both Catholics, followed the world rather than the Church. Sad.) One of the beautiful aspects of our Catholic Faith is that you can want, want, want, but at the end of the day, all of the "want" in the world cannot trump (no pun intended) unchangeable moral laws. The world always seeks a way to get what it wants. The hard truth is, if a couple cannot conceive naturally, they will not be able to have children unless they adopt, and there is a crying need for children who don't meet demographic standards of idealness to be adopted. For couples in that situation, God's Will is looking them right in the eye. Only the Catholic Faith provides sure guidance to moral dilemmas in every situation. Everything else falls short. (I once took it on the ear, on another forum, for saying that non-Catholics make imperfect moral decisions, but they do. I don't mean they're not good people, or that they don't do the best they can with what they have, but they don't have the complete package. If you think there are only nine commandments, not ten --- pick any one --- sooner or later you're going to make a bad moral decision, out of sheer ignorance if nothing else.) I can think of many, many other people I'd like to see be elected President than Donald Trump --- I generally like his policies, but his lack of erudition and simple-minded personality and mode of expression is appalling to me (he's very intelligent in terms of business savvy and ability to sway the masses) --- but it looks like he's the best we've got. Sad but true. With considerable reluctance, I'll be voting for him in November.
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Post by farronwolf on Mar 6, 2024 15:35:50 GMT
I voted for Nikki yesterday.
There is no way on God's green earth that I could vote for Chump. If Chump had sexually assaulted a family member of anyone who would be willing to vote for him, would they still vote for him? If they would, it gives me great pause as to just what they would put up with from someone in the highest elected position in our country.
The only reason Chump is "the best we've got" is because so many people are willing to overlook, the defamation, sexual assault, adultery, outright fraud, tax evasion, lies, racism, lack of respect for life, narcissism, and a great many other faults he displays, or privately they think these things are ok, many of which call themselves "christians".
And they prop it all up with Make America Great Again. Like any of those behaviors listed are positive for America or anyone else for that matter.
The republican party has become a laughing stock full of hypocrites.
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 6, 2024 16:09:50 GMT
I voted for Nikki yesterday. There is no way on God's green earth that I could vote for Chump. If Chump had sexually assaulted a family member of anyone who would be willing to vote for him, would they still vote for him? If they would, it gives me great pause as to just what they would put up with from someone in the highest elected position in our country. The only reason Chump is "the best we've got" is because so many people are willing to overlook, the defamation, sexual assault, adultery, outright fraud, tax evasion, lies, racism, lack of respect for life, narcissism, and a great many other faults he displays, or privately they think these things are ok, many of which call themselves "christians". And they prop it all up with Make America Great Again. Like any of those behaviors listed are positive for America or anyone else for that matter. The republican party has become a laughing stock full of hypocrites. Even with everything you note, Biden has done just as bad (minus perhaps the narcissism and the defamation) or worse, and his bald-faced defense of abortion choice, even his aggressive support for it, is a deal-killer for me. Trump did appoint the three Supreme Court Justices who helped to overturn Roe v Wade (which even Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an awesomely intelligent woman, admitted was a flawed decision), and if he wins and has a Senate majority, he could replace other justices, both liberal and conservative. Sonia Sotomayor is not a well woman, and Stephen Breyer is getting up there in years. And I'm sure Clarence Thomas would like to retire if he could. Neither Biden nor Trump are a "good" choice, it's just a case of the "less bad", on which people of good will can disagree. Personally I'd like to see Mike Huckabee as President, he's a Baptist preacher but far from being a "holy roller", he's even kind of borderline hip, what with his musical talent and easy personal manner, and so far as I am aware he has no skeletons in his closet. Asa Hutchinson, whom I recall you supported, would also be good, but he stood no chance of winning the nomination.
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Post by farronwolf on Mar 6, 2024 18:05:50 GMT
Chump supports abortion at about 16 weeks, so I guess that portion is "not as bad".
Let's not forget the defamation came as a result of sexual assault, or as the judge described it rape of Carrol. Payments to porn stars, other instances of adultery.
Don't think Biden has any of this in his history.
Chump University was a complete scam resulting in a 25 million dollar settlement. Chump Foundation paid 2 million to charities because it was a sham.
The list is very, very long.
Biden has no history of such actions.
Yes, Chump appointed justices who overturned Roe, but abortion is still with us. But as he did with abortion, he is doing the same thing with the southern border, feeding the masses with fodder to try to get them to join the train, and they are ever so willing to follow.
Chump has already indicated that he thinks he is above the law, and that in a second term will continue to destroy the republic that we have enjoyed for 250 years or so.
Dems will likely keep the senate, take the house and keep the presidency, due to the chaos that Chump has created within the republican party. Actual conservative republicans have all but left the party or will do what they can to stop Chump from getting a second term. That right there should tell folks something.
And yes, I did support Asa, as he was the best candidate to start the race. Unfortunately the masses prefer to scrape the bottom of the barrel for whatever reason.
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 7, 2024 2:31:55 GMT
Chump supports abortion at about 16 weeks, so I guess that portion is "not as bad". Let's not forget the defamation came as a result of sexual assault, or as the judge described it rape of Carrol. Payments to porn stars, other instances of adultery. Don't think Biden has any of this in his history. Chump University was a complete scam resulting in a 25 million dollar settlement. Chump Foundation paid 2 million to charities because it was a sham. The list is very, very long. Biden has no history of such actions. Yes, Chump appointed justices who overturned Roe, but abortion is still with us. But as he did with abortion, he is doing the same thing with the southern border, feeding the masses with fodder to try to get them to join the train, and they are ever so willing to follow. Chump has already indicated that he thinks he is above the law, and that in a second term will continue to destroy the republic that we have enjoyed for 250 years or so. Dems will likely keep the senate, take the house and keep the presidency, due to the chaos that Chump has created within the republican party. Actual conservative republicans have all but left the party or will do what they can to stop Chump from getting a second term. That right there should tell folks something. And yes, I did support Asa, as he was the best candidate to start the race. Unfortunately the masses prefer to scrape the bottom of the barrel for whatever reason. You can answer this or not, at your discretion, but are you saying you would vote for Biden over Trump, based upon everything you say above, or that you would either not vote at all, or vote for a third-party candidate? Bad as he is, I simply can't stand back and not cast my one measly little vote for Trump, and let that be, as a practical matter, one more vote for Biden. Just can't do it. I'm not suggesting that I would see it as a sin, or as a violation of my conscience to go that route --- prudential judgments involving moral matters can fall short of a mandate of conscience (or at least they do for me) --- but I have to do what I have to do. Again, I can think of many, many people for whom I'd rather be casting that vote, but sadly, they are not in a position to win the presidency in 2024, either because they're not on the ballot, or they couldn't possibly win if they were. Again, people of good will can legitimately and charitably differ on what course they would take. I am absolutely confident that someone such as you voting for Biden, if you were to do that, would not be an endorsement of his pro-choice policies, no more so than my vote for Trump is a blessing upon his many failings. I would welcome a turn of events, a turn that would leave him in good health, that would remove Trump from the ticket between now and then, and enable the GOP to replace him with a more acceptable candidate. And, yes, sadly, abortion is still with us, but there is a wide swath of states in the South where abortion is much more difficult to get than it was before the overturning of Roe, and lives have been saved. I seem to recall seeing a figure something like 70 thousand, and 70 thousand lives saved is nothing to sneeze at. Not everything any of us would like, but better to save them than not to save them.
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Post by farronwolf on Mar 7, 2024 4:03:03 GMT
Yes, if Biden and Chump are the only two choices, I will vote for Biden. We do not live in a theocracy and based on the American peoples wishes when the voters have been able to have their say at the ballot box, some form of abortion has been the people's wish. Do I like it, no, but Catholics don't rule this country, so that is not my deciding factor.
Chump was and will be a laughing stock for our allies. He will gladly stop any support for Ukraine, and let Putin have is way with their people. He will likely either stop supporting Nato or do his level best to remove the US from it. He will if able, pardon himself from any federal cases against him, or simply direct the Justice Department to halt anything they are doing against him. He will do whatever he can to restrict democracy within our country.
When Chump shows zero remorse for any bad/illegal or immoral act he does, and when looks up to the most ruthless dictators in the world and aspires to be like them, he displays a lack of character which leaves him unfit to lead our country. I can not overlook all of this and what it will do to our nation.
When Hillary ran against Chump in 2016, I did not vote for either of them due to lack of character of both.
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 7, 2024 4:48:55 GMT
Yes, if Biden and Chump are the only two choices, I will vote for Biden. We do not live in a theocracy and based on the American peoples wishes when the voters have been able to have their say at the ballot box, some form of abortion has been the people's wish. Do I like it, no, but Catholics don't rule this country, so that is not my deciding factor. Chump was and will be a laughing stock for our allies. He will gladly stop any support for Ukraine, and let Putin have is way with their people. He will likely either stop supporting Nato or do his level best to remove the US from it. He will if able, pardon himself from any federal cases against him, or simply direct the Justice Department to halt anything they are doing against him. He will do whatever he can to restrict democracy within our country. When Chump shows zero remorse for any bad/illegal or immoral act he does, and when looks up to the most ruthless dictators in the world and aspires to be like them, he displays a lack of character which leaves him unfit to lead our country. I can not overlook all of this and what it will do to our nation. When Hillary ran against Chump in 2016, I did not vote for either of them due to lack of character of both. Do what you gotta do. No judgment from me.
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bluekumul
Full Member
Christian humanist, democratic socialist, world citizen
Posts: 196
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Post by bluekumul on Mar 12, 2024 15:32:39 GMT
Both American parties have some appalling points: The Republicans support hardline psychopathic capitalism, unlimited gun ownership (leading to school shootings) and now are playing up to the Putin regime. The Democrats support LGBT activism including the "508 genders" lunacy and are playing up to Big Tech.
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 12, 2024 16:10:11 GMT
Both American parties have some appalling points: The Republicans support hardline psychopathic capitalism, unlimited gun ownership (leading to school shootings) and now are playing up to the Putin regime. The Democrats support LGBT activism including the "508 genders" lunacy and are playing up to Big Tech. On social welfare issues, if the Democrats weren't pro-choice on abortion, I'd align with them in a skinny minute. Don't even have to stop and think about it. I support free universal health care, free university education through graduate school, expansion of social benefits, and, yes, even some form of reparations for historically dispossessed groups. (Yes, you would have to raise taxes, but nothing comes for free.) Don't know what form reparations would (or even could) take, but possibilities include tax credits, low- or zero-interest mortgage loans, and so on, and even guaranteed percentages of representation in legislatures and certain executive government positions (but the latter hasn't worked out so well in Lebanon). Both parties have caved more or less equally on same-sex marriage, and now, it seems, on IVF as well. I normally vote Republican in the general elections, again, on the abortion issue, and I usually vote in the Democratic primaries, to push them as close to a pro-life position as I can, as I did with Tulsi Gabbard (who is now no longer a Democrat), and I had hoped to do with RFK Jr --- far from perfect on abortion, but at least he admits that the pro-life (or anti-abortion, if you prefer) side has a point of view that is worth listening to, and that abortion is always a tragedy --- in this year's primaries, until he bolted from the Democratic pack. If November comes and I find myself totally unable to vote for Trump, a deeply flawed man (to say the least) with a troubling past (ditto), I would be entirely open to voting for Kennedy on whatever ticket he runs on. He's a tad eccentric, but he has far fewer character issues than Trump or Biden either one.
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