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Post by katy777 on Mar 27, 2021 15:11:31 GMT
I live in the grand country of New Jersey lol..
Mostly protestant..
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Post by katy777 on Mar 27, 2021 15:23:34 GMT
The lights flash on sign on the side of the road that school is in session and you have to slow down to 25 mph. The normal speed limit is 45. This is the public highschool I drove by, but all schools in my state have these flashing signs in a school zone. So public schools must have been closed for Passover.. Sounds likely. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but if there were a substantial Jewish population, I could easily foresee that.
And just as an example of what can happen when a person has too much time on their hands  , I have wondered, if Chick-fil-a were ever to open in Israel, would they close on Sundays, on the Jewish sabbath, or both?
Their signature chicken filet sandwich is not all that far removed from chicken schnitzel, which is widely enjoyed in the Jewish world. And except for the butter on the bun (mixing milchig with fleischig), it would be entirely kosher. And I know, I once asked this question too, how can Jews be prohibited from mixing fowl with milk, as fowls do not lactate? It seems that it is a rabbinical prohibition, not one from the Torah:
I'm assuming seafood au gratin would be allowed. And think of lox and cream cheese on a bagel.
They also have dishes designed for each type of food. Non dairy creamer was invented for Jewish people so they can eat meat and still have cream in thier coffee. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 27, 2021 15:29:10 GMT
I live in the grand country of New Jersey lol.. Mostly protestant.. I thought NJ was pretty much Catholic and Jewish. That said, I do recognize that there are Protestants in New Jersey, actually quite many. It's just not the first thing I think of.
I do not disclose my exact location or diocese online, one reason being that I have an ongoing dispute with my diocese (can't discuss it online) and it behooves me to keep kind of a low profile. Long story. But I can tell you that my city does have a very active Lubavitcher Chabad (they're growing all over the place), and there is an eruv (area bounded by wires on utility poles and maintained under rabbinical supervision, to allow carrying of goods on the sabbath). You will see families walking on shabbos, and occasionally older men with prayer books, prayer shawls, and payot (curled sidelocks, pronounced "payess"), on a Saturday morning. Outside of Atlanta or possibly Charlotte, you wouldn't expect something like this in the South, but it's here nonetheless. The South is a rapidly-growing and changing region.
I'm sure you already knew what an eruv and payot are, I just offer it here for the reader who might not.
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Post by katy777 on Mar 27, 2021 18:20:27 GMT
The concentration of Jewish and Catholics are mostly on the border of NYC and. Philadelphia here. For every Catholic church here you would find about 5 protestant churches..
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Post by stjosephprayforus on Mar 31, 2021 6:35:46 GMT
homeschooldad I would like to see ALL Holy Days of Obligations as non transferable. The whole idea of moving days of obligation around to make it easier for people seems to be counter-productive. Instead, they should keep the feasts where they were supposed to be, and just encourage priests to be more flexible in the times they offer said Mass(es). How many of us would love to attend daily Mass, with our families even, but can't because we work. I work at a school so my hours are Monday-Friday from 6am-4pm (if you factor in the time it takes to get ready in the mornings, and then the commute to and from work). What am I supposed to do when daily Mass is offered at 8am? Priests ought to be offering daily Masses at 5am for the 1st shift crowd and then also an evening Mass 6pm or 7pm (to allow families to attend daily Mass). It always frustrates me to hear Priests at the pulpit complaining about how nobody volunteers or how nobody is doing their part for the Church, when the Church herself is failing to make the Sacraments available to us. Don't even get me started on confessions once a week for maybe an hour, if we're lucky!
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Post by homeschooldad on Mar 31, 2021 15:35:48 GMT
homeschooldad I would like to see ALL Holy Days of Obligations as non transferable. The whole idea of moving days of obligation around to make it easier for people seems to be counter-productive. Instead, they should keep the feasts where they were supposed to be, and just encourage priests to be more flexible in the times they offer said Mass(es). How many of us would love to attend daily Mass, with our families even, but can't because we work. I work at a school so my hours are Monday-Friday from 6am-4pm (if you factor in the time it takes to get ready in the mornings, and then the commute to and from work). What am I supposed to do when daily Mass is offered at 8am? Priests ought to be offering daily Masses at 5am for the 1st shift crowd and then also an evening Mass 6pm or 7pm (to allow families to attend daily Mass). It always frustrates me to hear Priests at the pulpit complaining about how nobody volunteers or how nobody is doing their part for the Church, when the Church herself is failing to make the Sacraments available to us. Don't even get me started on confessions once a week for maybe an hour, if we're lucky! I have to think that it is, in part at least, a concession to modern society, the demands of working, commuting, getting children to and from school, and so on. Some HDOs fall during times of the year when sunlight is at a premium, and children have to go to school in the dark, and come home in the dark --- which is ridiculous, yet another of many reasons why homeschooling is best, if you can do it.
People who either don't work for a living, or don't have children, or don't have much going on in their lives, can very often lose sight of just how hectic and crowded some people's lives are. We are not in European villages where everything closes down on Sundays and HDOs, some of the more festive of these HDOs being characterized by street festivals and the like. North Americans are busy people.
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Post by ratioetfides on Mar 31, 2021 17:16:22 GMT
homeschooldad I would like to see ALL Holy Days of Obligations as non transferable. The whole idea of moving days of obligation around to make it easier for people seems to be counter-productive. Instead, they should keep the feasts where they were supposed to be, and just encourage priests to be more flexible in the times they offer said Mass(es). How many of us would love to attend daily Mass, with our families even, but can't because we work. I work at a school so my hours are Monday-Friday from 6am-4pm (if you factor in the time it takes to get ready in the mornings, and then the commute to and from work). What am I supposed to do when daily Mass is offered at 8am? Priests ought to be offering daily Masses at 5am for the 1st shift crowd and then also an evening Mass 6pm or 7pm (to allow families to attend daily Mass). It always frustrates me to hear Priests at the pulpit complaining about how nobody volunteers or how nobody is doing their part for the Church, when the Church herself is failing to make the Sacraments available to us. Don't even get me started on confessions once a week for maybe an hour, if we're lucky! What is counter-productive about an effort to involved the largest possible number of the faithful in the celebration of the most important days in the life of The Church? The faithful are not prevented from attending mass on the actual day itself. Perhaps the faithful could be more flexible with the time they make themselves available to fulfill their obligation. Most working persons have vacation days; these may be used to attend mass on days of obligation. Religious houses of persons living largely professional lives often have daily masses scheduled in the early morning or evening. The amount of hours some laypersons expect a secular priest to work is mind boggling. 5am and 7pm mass on a Tuesday? What is the average number of priests in a parish? In these parts it is one except for urban super-parishes. It seems some would like Father to binate during the week (early morning and evening), trinate on Sundays, preside over funerals as they arise, preside over weddings on Saturdays, spend untold hours in the confessional, make sick calls, and act as CEO of the parish. Is this a reasonable approach? The effort and hours are staggering. Which day will Father be allowed off? It would be surprising if confessions were not available outside the appointed hours by way of an appointment. Is one hour once a week not enough time for a specific person’s confession, or are persons being turned away because the hour is over and confessions are no longer being heard? Do they faithful really believe The Church is failing to make the sacraments available? Should The Church and/or priest be viewed primarily as sacrament vending machines? Some members of the faithful may wish the church/their parish would bend to accommodate their personal needs due to their particular circumstances. It is worth noting, largely, the faithful choose their own circumstances. They determine where they will live, where they will work, and what their family situation will be. One can move to a location where a 5am daily mass is available, one can get a job which starts sometime after an 8am daily mass, or one could recruit a retired priest to provide additional coverage. Persons looking for a wide variety of mass and confession times would do well to locate themselves nearby a large religious house of a clerical institute. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Apr 1, 2021 0:50:34 GMT
It would be surprising if confessions were not available outside the appointed hours by way of an appointment. Is one hour once a week not enough time for a specific person’s confession, or are persons being turned away because the hour is over and confessions are no longer being heard? Well, it seems to be a modern trend, among those people who do actually go to confession, for an individual confession to get so lengthy, that before you know it, if you have two or three "whoppers" during confession time, then confessions are over, and people still in line are turned away. I've been turned away myself for this reason. I think some people (on both sides of the screen) are approaching confession more as a therapy session, or going into detail that isn't appropriate to a set confession time in a parish on Saturday afternoon or what have you.
It might be a good idea for priests to make it known in their parishes, something to the effect of "out of consideration for your fellow penitents, a normal, routine confession should be limited to no more than five minutes, if you anticipate needing to make a longer confession, please make an appointment to see the priest outside of confession hours". This would not necessarily have to involve giving up one's anonymity. Just have it be common knowledge that confessions-by-appointment can be arranged over the phone, with the priest meeting you at the confessional at such-and-such a time, if you choose to use the screen, the priest never even need see you.
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Post by ratioetfides on Apr 1, 2021 1:04:44 GMT
It would be surprising if confessions were not available outside the appointed hours by way of an appointment. Is one hour once a week not enough time for a specific person’s confession, or are persons being turned away because the hour is over and confessions are no longer being heard? Well, it seems to be a modern trend, among those people who do actually go to confession, for an individual confession to get so lengthy, that before you know it, if you have two or three "whoppers" during confession time, then confessions are over, and people still in line are turned away. I've been turned away myself for this reason. I think some people (on both sides of the screen) are approaching confession more as a therapy session, or going into detail that isn't appropriate to a set confession time in a parish on Saturday afternoon or what have you.
It might be a good idea for priests to make it known in their parishes, something to the effect of "out of consideration for your fellow penitents, a normal, routine confession should be limited to no more than five minutes, if you anticipate needing to make a longer confession, please make an appointment to see the priest outside of confession hours". This would not necessarily have to involve giving up one's anonymity. Just have it be common knowledge that confessions-by-appointment can be arranged over the phone, with the priest meeting you at the confessional at such-and-such a time, if you choose to use the screen, the priest never even need see you.
Confession/counseling sessions do seem to be problematic at times. Some priests or parishes do a good job routing these to times outside of those normally scheduled. Consistently turning away expecting penitents may be an occasion for the local ordinary to permit conditional/general absolution for those to be turned away. This would suffice until such penitents can make an auricular confession. |
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Post by stjosephprayforus on Apr 1, 2021 1:36:27 GMT
From what I remember attending Latin Mass only type communities (FSSP, SSPX, etc) they were all about making themselves available. The SSPX experience doesn't count since they had a priory with 12 priests, so obviously availability for them is not a problem. But for the FSSP and Institute of the Good Shepherd, these parishes were covered by a single priest who would drive all over the place offering Masses to huge geographic areas. They made time before and after every Mass for confession and it didn't end until people stopped asking. On top of that, they provide robust catechesis, led by the priests themselves. Not getting Susan from the parish council to teach RCIA where she teaches that all religions are equal, IVF is ok, gay marriage is wrong but we can and should support same sex civil unions (all things that happened at our local parish). If these traditional priests who are stretched far more thinly than their diocesan counterpart, can provide 2-3 times the amount of time, energy, and effort into MULTIPLE communities, then diocesan priests can step up their game at their local parish.
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Post by homeschooldad on Apr 1, 2021 2:02:11 GMT
From what I remember attending Latin Mass only type communities (FSSP, SSPX, etc) they were all about making themselves available. The SSPX experience doesn't count since they had a priory with 12 priests, so obviously availability for them is not a problem. But for the FSSP and Institute of the Good Shepherd, these parishes were covered by a single priest who would drive all over the place offering Masses to huge geographic areas. They made time before and after every Mass for confession and it didn't end until people stopped asking. On top of that, they provide robust catechesis, led by the priests themselves. Not getting Susan from the parish council to teach RCIA where she teaches that all religions are equal, IVF is ok, gay marriage is wrong but we can and should support same sex civil unions (all things that happened at our local parish). If these traditional priests who are stretched far more thinly than their diocesan counterpart, can provide 2-3 times the amount of time, energy, and effort into MULTIPLE communities, then diocesan priests can step up their game at their local parish. I have to wonder sometimes, how women who really are named Susan handle it, when they find themselves on the parish council  (I'm familiar with the meme).
Latin Mass congregations are, by their very nature, "intentional communities", and more traditionally-oriented Catholics are more likely to seek out confession. Turning Say's Law on its head, it may be a case of "demand creates its own supply".
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Post by ratioetfides on Apr 1, 2021 2:15:36 GMT
^
It should be noted diocesan priests have not chosen to join such secular societies or societies of apostolic life. They are bound by the desires of the local ordinary and guided by the care of souls in their parish. The most basic obligations of a pastor are to provide for the good of souls, provide mass and a homily on days of obligation, hear confessions (especially in dire situations), preside over weddings and funerals, conduct baptisms, and care for the material needs of the parish.
Is the ratio of ‘traditionalist’ priest to lay persons seeking ‘traditional’ modes of worship smaller than priest to laypersons at large? Ie are ‘traditionalist’ priests actually ‘spread more thin?’
Demeaning the competence of laypersons seems to be rather common amongst certain groups. Clerics, religious, and laypersons are all capable of conducting very poor catechesis on both ends of theological spectrums. Layperson, religious, and clerics are all also capable of conducting excellent and balanced catechesis. Layperson and non-ordained religious are in many cases better equipped to provide such catechesis than their ordained counterparts.
Workaholism, burnout, depression, substance abuse, and various other addictions are real problems amongst parish clergy. Opportunities for relaxation, fellowship, spiritual development, exercise, proper nutrition, and developing healthy interpersonal relationships are real and essential needs. A healthy work/life balance and opportunities to develop a healthy well-integrated self are just as important for clergy as other adults. Healthy religious and secular institutes insure their members such opportunities and look out for the best interest of their members. Perhaps the laity can step up and not place unrealistic demands upon the diocesan clergy.
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Post by stjosephprayforus on Apr 1, 2021 2:33:18 GMT
ratioetfides I can only speak from our local parishes. They are about the same population as the two latin mass communities nearest us. When a TLM priest is willing to offer two Masses Sunday morning and then drive 3+ hours one way (literally) to offer another Mass with a confession before and after, I don't respect any priest who only offers confession once a week for maybe an hour at best. Beyond that you have to schedule an appointment. It's ridiculous. If this were one priest in a parish of thousands, I would understand your point and agree. But where we live, these are smaller parishes.
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Post by ratioetfides on Apr 1, 2021 3:00:36 GMT
ratioetfides I can only speak from our local parishes. They are about the same population as the two latin mass communities nearest us. When a TLM priest is willing to offer two Masses Sunday morning and then drive 3+ hours one way (literally) to offer another Mass with a confession before and after, I don't respect any priest who only offers confession once a week for maybe an hour at best. Beyond that you have to schedule an appointment. It's ridiculous. If this were one priest in a parish of thousands, I would understand your point and agree. But where we live, these are smaller parishes. Most of the faithful probably want to see their pastor/priest as a hardworking person trying their best to fulfill the needs of their parishioners. Parishes, clerics, and individual members of the faithful may vary on exactly what this looks like in practice. In this case, it may be interesting to know how many hours a particular priest ‘works’ per week. It also might be interesting to know how many hours how many times a week a priest must be available in the confessional to earn ‘respect.’ Ie would a priest available 45 minutes twice a week be ‘respected?’ 45min 3x/wk? 1hr 6x/wk? Should a priest just sit for hours in the confessional and ignore other duties or personal needs in case a penitent happens to drop by? It would seem smaller parishes would require smaller amounts scheduled time for confessions. Confessions by appointment seems quite the reasonable solution. It seems unlikely a priest would design their work or life around gaining the respect of every single parishioner. Rather they may make such designs based on fulfilling the needs and wants of the largest number of parishioners possible. The faithful may encounter priests they highly respect, have no respect for, or somewhere in the middle. Likely there is not much sleep disturbed on the part of these priests. Plenty of priest who do not celebrate the extraordinary form trinate on Sundays and some cover larger distances to do so. They may even spend much time hearing confessions when possible. The vast majority of far flung communities, multi church parishes, and missions are served by such priests. Are there some lazy clerics? Yes. Are there less lazy clerics amongst traditionalist groups? Perhaps. |
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Post by homeschooldad on Apr 1, 2021 3:48:05 GMT
Well, it seems to be a modern trend, among those people who do actually go to confession, for an individual confession to get so lengthy, that before you know it, if you have two or three "whoppers" during confession time, then confessions are over, and people still in line are turned away. I've been turned away myself for this reason. I think some people (on both sides of the screen) are approaching confession more as a therapy session, or going into detail that isn't appropriate to a set confession time in a parish on Saturday afternoon or what have you.
It might be a good idea for priests to make it known in their parishes, something to the effect of "out of consideration for your fellow penitents, a normal, routine confession should be limited to no more than five minutes, if you anticipate needing to make a longer confession, please make an appointment to see the priest outside of confession hours". This would not necessarily have to involve giving up one's anonymity. Just have it be common knowledge that confessions-by-appointment can be arranged over the phone, with the priest meeting you at the confessional at such-and-such a time, if you choose to use the screen, the priest never even need see you.
Confession/counseling sessions do seem to be problematic at times. Some priests or parishes do a good job routing these to times outside of those normally scheduled. Consistently turning away expecting penitents may be an occasion for the local ordinary to permit conditional/general absolution for those to be turned away. This would suffice until such penitents can make an auricular confession. I agree with you more than not, but on another forum (don't recall if it was CAF or somewhere else), others made the very good observation that this could somehow dilute the sacrament, that some people might even try to get to the back of the line, so they could be absolved without confessing. That's kind of a jaundiced view, but at the same time, what might begin as a benign practice could turn into people never truly "turning loose" of a besetting sin, because they might reason, "well, I'm absolved, that's all I have to worry about", or more charitably, "I'll get here early next time", and that "early next time" never happens. It probably wouldn't be a good practice to get started, though there could be isolated exceptions.
I know the early 21st century is very much a long-winded, expressive, "talk a long time so I'll feel better" era in history, but people need to be guided back to the concept of "unless it's something really besetting or worrying, in which case you really need to make a private appointment, 'be bold, be brief, and be gone' ".
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, I have wondered, if Chick-fil-a were ever to open in Israel, would they close on Sundays, on the Jewish sabbath, or both? 
(I'm familiar with the meme).