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Post by AgnusDei on Jul 6, 2021 10:41:16 GMT
“..the Church both accepted me and can accommodate virtually any life situation.” Oh yeah, as mine was/is,(and ever will be) a weird one! Dominus vobiscum
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 7, 2021 3:25:02 GMT
It is both valid and licit. If the Priest baptizes you, then he is also authorized to confirm you. Exactly what occurred in my case. I see no problem and am grateful that the Church both accepted me and can accommodate virtually any life situation. I do not question the validity, liciety, or efficacy in the least, of confirmation conferred by a priest instead of a bishop. It is all one and the same sacrament. My only question was how common this is, and apparently, it is quite common anymore.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 7, 2021 3:33:57 GMT
You can call the parish office. My daughter was brought up traditional and parishes merged. She goes to traditional mass with us, and sings in contemporary choir at the regular mass. So 2 masses, lol. I get what your saying, but this is common. The monsignor may say the mass in Latin. Just ask. Will you still be homeschooling your son in high school? At the moment, we do not have a particular parish. We quit attending the parish we live in, for many reasons (I really do not wish to get into it), and I contribute both to the parish downtown, and to the parish where I have recently begun assisting at the TLM, though I am registered in neither. I prefer that my son receive the traditional rite, and it just so happens that the SSPX does not have the massive time and effort investment (really kind of over-the-top, if you ask me), that "regular" parishes typically have nowadays. For several reasons (and I do not wish to get into that either, except to assure the reader that he does not suffer from any kind of deficiency, he's quite intelligent), confirmation may not take place at the "usual" age. He may wait for a few years. I am not going to force him to receive confirmation until he feels he is truly ready for it. I understand the line of reasoning that "you need the graces of the sacrament and it shouldn't be delayed for years", but trust me, I am up close to the situation and I know how things need to be. Confirmation, while highly desirable, is not necessary for salvation.
We do plan to continue homeschooling through high school, and to make a transition to the nearby community college when he turns 18. We may do a kind of dual enrollment during his senior year.
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Post by ratioetfides on Jul 7, 2021 5:07:04 GMT
The delegation of the sacrament of confirmation to a priest is a relatively common occurrence, particularly in the Easter season. Often auxiliary bishops are the ones appointed to make confirmation rounds in diocese which have one or more such bishops. Such delegation to priests or conferral by auxiliaries, while licit and fully grace-filled, seem to alienate the faithful from their rightful ordinary and the corporate liturgical life of their particular church.
There are several issues at play here; mostly concerning the willingness of the pastor and ordinary to confer confirmation and that of sacramental records, which can seem complicated. Dioceses may differ in how they handle the sacramental records. Many will require the parish where confirmation is received to make and keep a record. All will require the ‘confirming parish’ to notify the ‘baptismal parish’ so a notation can be mad in the baptismal registry. Most will endeavor to have duplicate parish and diocesan registries.
Very recently the SSPX has widely enjoyed a more cordial relationship with many diocesan ordinaries, especially regarding marriage registrations. Perhaps the society also notifies the diocese in the case of confirmation?
It is possible to do ‘private study’ for confirmation. One of the challenges will be the presentation to a Bishop, ordinary, or delegated priest. If one is to make a private study such accommodation should be had in advance. Perhaps the pastor of the rightful territorial parish would be willing to accept study with a priest or layperson willing provide the type of preparation desired? Perhaps some diocesan official would be willing to do so? Perhaps a neighboring pastor would be willing, though under no obligation to do so?
One caution against obtaining the sacrament from an irregular priest or society, such as the SSPX, is the sacramental record. Where will it be kept? Will they inform the diocese? What happens if the SSPX mission closes? (it will not be amalgamated as it would be within the diocese). What impact might a sacramental record from the SSPX have on a person choosing to pursue ordination and/or religious life in a fully regularized setting? (All sacramental records will be required).
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Post by katy777 on Jul 7, 2021 6:23:52 GMT
I understand... He will need to make confirmation to marry in a Catholic church though.
With my kids they had to write a letter to the Bishop telling him they are ready and why is they chose the saint name. That's why grade 8 is learning of all the saints.
As for the highschool question, it's very difficult to find a Traditional high school, but you have that covered.
If you go the sspx or fssp route, he will get a certificate too.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 9, 2021 2:59:40 GMT
The delegation of the sacrament of confirmation to a priest is a relatively common occurrence, particularly in the Easter season. Often auxiliary bishops are the ones appointed to make confirmation rounds in diocese which have one or more such bishops. Such delegation to priests or conferral by auxiliaries, while licit and fully grace-filled, seem to alienate the faithful from their rightful ordinary and the corporate liturgical life of their particular church. There are several issues at play here; mostly concerning the willingness of the pastor and ordinary to confer confirmation and that of sacramental records, which can seem complicated. Dioceses may differ in how they handle the sacramental records. Many will require the parish where confirmation is received to make and keep a record. All will require the ‘confirming parish’ to notify the ‘baptismal parish’ so a notation can be mad in the baptismal registry. Most will endeavor to have duplicate parish and diocesan registries. Very recently the SSPX has widely enjoyed a more cordial relationship with many diocesan ordinaries, especially regarding marriage registrations. Perhaps the society also notifies the diocese in the case of confirmation? It is possible to do ‘private study’ for confirmation. One of the challenges will be the presentation to a Bishop, ordinary, or delegated priest. If one is to make a private study such accommodation should be had in advance. Perhaps the pastor of the rightful territorial parish would be willing to accept study with a priest or layperson willing provide the type of preparation desired? Perhaps some diocesan official would be willing to do so? Perhaps a neighboring pastor would be willing, though under no obligation to do so? One caution against obtaining the sacrament from an irregular priest or society, such as the SSPX, is the sacramental record. Where will it be kept? Will they inform the diocese? What happens if the SSPX mission closes? (it will not be amalgamated as it would be within the diocese). What impact might a sacramental record from the SSPX have on a person choosing to pursue ordination and/or religious life in a fully regularized setting? (All sacramental records will be required). These are some good points. As far as sacramental records are concerned, I would say the SSPX has that covered. Keep in mind that the SSPX has never been dissolved by the Church, and it still has a "legal personality", so it is not as though they are a sect outside the Church. The closest thing would be a priestly society or order (such as what happened with the Jesuits in the 1700s) that has been suppressed, but kept on operating anyway. Best-case scenario, the SSPX sends the confirmation record to the confirmand's parish of record, and the parish of record (i.e., where the confirmand was baptized) just goes ahead and records it, the same way they would do for any other confirmation. Worst-case scenario, the parish of record receives this, but a misinformed parish secretary says "oh, they're schismatic, we don't record things like that", and it goes unrecorded. If there is ever a need to prove that one has been confirmed, then, the confirmand would just have to obtain a certificate straight from the SSPX. Especially in the present climate, I seriously have to doubt that someone receiving these records would say "can't accept this, it's outside the Church [sic], they have to go through the whole confirmation process again, and be confirmed all over". I don't think anyone, not even the most fervent "Novus Ordo/Vatican II" Catholic, would deny that a valid confirmation took place.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 9, 2021 3:02:31 GMT
I understand... He will need to make confirmation to marry in a Catholic church though. With my kids they had to write a letter to the Bishop telling him they are ready and why is they chose the saint name. That's why grade 8 is learning of all the saints. As for the highschool question, it's very difficult to find a Traditional high school, but you have that covered. If you go the sspx or fssp route, he will get a certificate too. Right now, he says he's never getting married. I would take that cum grano salis.
When he either decides to be confirmed, or needs to be confirmed, it can be done at that time. I'm not sweating it, but neither am I going to force him to receive a sacrament he does not want to receive. I'm pretty sure being forced to receive a sacrament by a parent, is contrary to the mind of the Church.
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Post by ratioetfides on Jul 9, 2021 3:46:49 GMT
The delegation of the sacrament of confirmation to a priest is a relatively common occurrence, particularly in the Easter season. Often auxiliary bishops are the ones appointed to make confirmation rounds in diocese which have one or more such bishops. Such delegation to priests or conferral by auxiliaries, while licit and fully grace-filled, seem to alienate the faithful from their rightful ordinary and the corporate liturgical life of their particular church. There are several issues at play here; mostly concerning the willingness of the pastor and ordinary to confer confirmation and that of sacramental records, which can seem complicated. Dioceses may differ in how they handle the sacramental records. Many will require the parish where confirmation is received to make and keep a record. All will require the ‘confirming parish’ to notify the ‘baptismal parish’ so a notation can be mad in the baptismal registry. Most will endeavor to have duplicate parish and diocesan registries. Very recently the SSPX has widely enjoyed a more cordial relationship with many diocesan ordinaries, especially regarding marriage registrations. Perhaps the society also notifies the diocese in the case of confirmation? It is possible to do ‘private study’ for confirmation. One of the challenges will be the presentation to a Bishop, ordinary, or delegated priest. If one is to make a private study such accommodation should be had in advance. Perhaps the pastor of the rightful territorial parish would be willing to accept study with a priest or layperson willing provide the type of preparation desired? Perhaps some diocesan official would be willing to do so? Perhaps a neighboring pastor would be willing, though under no obligation to do so? One caution against obtaining the sacrament from an irregular priest or society, such as the SSPX, is the sacramental record. Where will it be kept? Will they inform the diocese? What happens if the SSPX mission closes? (it will not be amalgamated as it would be within the diocese). What impact might a sacramental record from the SSPX have on a person choosing to pursue ordination and/or religious life in a fully regularized setting? (All sacramental records will be required). These are some good points. As far as sacramental records are concerned, I would say the SSPX has that covered. Keep in mind that the SSPX has never been dissolved by the Church, and it still has a "legal personality", so it is not as though they are a sect outside the Church. The closest thing would be a priestly society or order (such as what happened with the Jesuits in the 1700s) that has been suppressed, but kept on operating anyway. Best-case scenario, the SSPX sends the confirmation record to the confirmand's parish of record, and the parish of record (i.e., where the confirmand was baptized) just goes ahead and records it, the same way they would do for any other confirmation. Worst-case scenario, the parish of record receives this, but a misinformed parish secretary says "oh, they're schismatic, we don't record things like that", and it goes unrecorded. If there is ever a need to prove that one has been confirmed, then, the confirmand would just have to obtain a certificate lol straight from the SSPX. Especially in the present climate, I seriously have to doubt that someone receiving these records would say "can't accept this, it's outside the Church [sic], they have to go through the whole confirmation process again, and be confirmed all over". I don't think anyone, not even the most fervent "Novus Ordo/Vatican II" Catholic, would deny that a valid confirmation took place. Yes, and thus the ‘irregular status.’ SSPX clerics now enjoy limited facilities in nearly all jurisdictions, by fiat from Rome and agreements with particular churches. These are the correct best case scenarios in regards to the recording of sacramental records. The SSPX confirmations are wholly valid, yet likely illicit. As a general rule of thumb religious institutes and secular societies do not maintain sacramental records detailing the persons they have administered sacraments to, except for those sacraments conferred upon their own members. Such records are maintained by parishes and particular churches (dioceses). The SSPX does not rightfully have parishes; they operate missions. If the parish of baptism or the particular church is not notified the question is where would one locate the records if the mission was suppressed? They would not automatically be amalgamated as they would with the closing of a proper parish. Perhaps the SSPX does maintain records because of their irregular status? Another issue is the sacramental record will record the name of the cleric administering the sacrament. Which would be either Fr Smith, SSPX or Bishop Jones, SSPX. This was the point intended for any person later wishing to pursue ordained or religious life in a fully regularized setting. While not an impediment, for some particular churches or some institutes this would at the very minimum require explanation and possibly make ones acceptance more difficult, especially if the recorded sacraments are administered to those who have reached the age of majority.
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Post by katy777 on Jul 9, 2021 11:37:04 GMT
My children received the sacrament with the school parish and thier class at a regular mass . Latin had nothing to do with it. The bishop came and said all baccalaureate masses for high school graduation though. This is specifically in reference to confirmations being performed using the traditional rites in Latin. Many traditionalists prefer this, indeed, when my son is confirmed --- whenever that may be --- my preference will be for such rites. The SSPX performs such confirmations, requiring only a solid knowledge of doctrine from the catechism --- Angelus Press publishes such a mini-catechism, which we have --- rather than this long-drawn-out preparation period with classes, community service obligations, and all that stuff that is required for confirmation in the OF/NOM environment. (I ensure that my son has a strong sense of civic virtue and the necessity of service to those less fortunate. Right now I am inoculating him against the errors and excesses of dog-eat-dog laissez-faire capitalism, lessons that he is taking to heart.) I am assuming he is in some sort of cc'd program? You can also go to a traditional forum and ask your question there too. Itt was 25 service hours here for confirmation. And this is not work at home. This is volunteering at the sisters nursing home, altar service, choir and thing like that.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 11, 2021 23:44:09 GMT
This is specifically in reference to confirmations being performed using the traditional rites in Latin. Many traditionalists prefer this, indeed, when my son is confirmed --- whenever that may be --- my preference will be for such rites. The SSPX performs such confirmations, requiring only a solid knowledge of doctrine from the catechism --- Angelus Press publishes such a mini-catechism, which we have --- rather than this long-drawn-out preparation period with classes, community service obligations, and all that stuff that is required for confirmation in the OF/NOM environment. (I ensure that my son has a strong sense of civic virtue and the necessity of service to those less fortunate. Right now I am inoculating him against the errors and excesses of dog-eat-dog laissez-faire capitalism, lessons that he is taking to heart.) I am assuming he is in some sort of cc'd program? You can also go to a traditional forum and ask your question there too. Itt was 25 service hours here for confirmation. And this is not work at home. This is volunteering at the sisters nursing home, altar service, choir and thing like that. No, he is not in CCD, we do religious education entirely from home, using traditional sources such as the Baltimore Catechism. We also have in-depth discussions about various moral and theological issues, usually prompted by questions he has. Today's "lesson" was on why it was not preferable for us to get the car washed today --- we were right by the car wash and he wanted to do it --- and I explained that this is unnecessary servile work, there was no pressing need for us to get the car washed, it can wait until another day. This led to a further discussion of what is necessary servile work, what is unnecessary servile work, and how something such as taking a mini-road trip is legitimate recreation, not "work".
As a totally separate sidebar issue, we also discussed how you do not receive communion if you are in mortal sin. To what extent do they cover such things in Grade 8 CCD? Do they call it "mortal" sin, or do they call it "grave" or "serious" sin? Is it mentioned often? Is mortal sin discussed often? It is in our religion class. As I always tell my son, no, in eternity, it is not really going to matter whether you know algebra or not, nor whether you know when the Battle of Hastings took place. But it will matter whether you knew that the purpose of your life is to know, love, and serve God, to live and die in His friendship, and thus be happy with him forever in heaven. Do they cover that in CCD? How much and how often?
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Post by katy777 on Jul 12, 2021 0:11:44 GMT
homeschooldad In 8th grade and before the children know what a mortal sin is. It is discussed alot and veniel too. Mortal sin, you sit in pew until confessed. She knows them all. Washing the car is not counted as service, it's a chore. My daughter has to do 27 service hours just for being a sophomore in high school . So she volunteered at the library and will be a helper at vacation bible school. Then choir practice counts, not the mass singing. My child goes to Catholic School since grade 3. She is with Jesus everyday. They have a chapel and priest onhand for any questions and for confession. We also teach her at home. Family rosary, and she learned cursive handwriting by writing prayers. Although my other children attended Catholic school since pre school through college, she's my holiest one. She's the one bringing flowers to her Mary Statue without me saying a word. I bought her The young Catholic girls maglet from finer Feminity blog which covers chastity, and modesty. And in answer to your last question, it's covered daily at school and home. Your son sounds so holy too. I think you are a great influence on him. Now is the time for your son to read about awesome saints and choose a name.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 12, 2021 1:47:23 GMT
homeschooldad In 8th grade and before the children know what a mortal sin is. It is discussed alot and veniel too. Mortal sin, you sit in pew until confessed. She knows them all. Washing the car is not counted as service, it's a chore. My daughter has to do 27 service hours just for being a sophomore in high school . So she volunteered at the library and will be a helper at vacation bible school. Then choir practice counts, not the mass singing. My child goes to Catholic School since grade 3. She is with Jesus everyday. They have a chapel and priest onhand for any questions and for confession. We also teach her at home. Family rosary, and she learned cursive handwriting by writing prayers. Although my other children attended Catholic school since pre school through college, she's my holiest one. She's the one bringing flowers to her Mary Statue without me saying a word. I bought her The young Catholic girls maglet from finer Feminity blog which covers chastity, and modesty. And in answer to your last question, it's covered daily at school and home. Your son sounds so holy too. I think you are a great influence on him. Now is the time for your son to read about awesome saints and choose a name. I would hope they know by that age. My son went to a Catholic grade school and came out of Grade 5 not knowing Jack about Catholicism. I had to teach him a lot. It is still a work in progress.
My son struggles with certain faith issues, and I shall just leave it at that. Many young people at that age struggle likewise, though some are more vocal about it than others --- we have always had an environment in our home that any concerns and problems are fair game, nothing is off-limits, don't keep it to yourself, tell me so that I might help you, you will never be able to tell me anything that will shock or injure me. I tell him that it is my solemn obligation before Almighty God to teach him the whole truth --- even if there are aspects of it he doesn't like at the moment --- than to water it down and leave out the parts that are difficult to accept or to live by. He knows the Sixth and Ninth Commandments backward and forward, and that is by design, for as disagreeable as it is to have to say so, that is the area where the souls of young people are in most danger. I hope I don't come across sounding like Carrie's mother from the Stephen King novel and movie --- I always keep it positive and explain how it is God's great gift, and great plan, for new souls to come into creation, one hopes, to glorify God for all eternity, and how that anyone who uses this faculty wrongly sins, even mortally. I teach him daily how that he will only find true happiness by placing God at the center of his life, how he ought to arise every morning and say "serviam" (I got that idea from Opus Dei, though I am not an Opus Dei member and I never will be, I have issues with some --- but not all --- of their practices), and that he ought to conform his will (and it is a strong one, make no mistake about that) to the will of God in all things. I can only hope and pray that his struggle will culminate in a strong faith and adherence to Catholic belief and morality in all things. Once we are closer to that point, then he will be ready for confirmation.
I remind him that for what I am, an unreconstructed traditionalist Catholic with no apologies and no compromise, I am actually about as liberal (in practice) as he would ever find. I remind him that he would find it far more stifling, and far more frustrating, if Mr X, Mr Y, or Mr Z (I'll omit the names) were his father instead of me. Not sure how much of this goes in one ear and out the other.
There is never a dull moment when you're a parent.
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Post by tth1 on Aug 23, 2021 15:14:36 GMT
How common is this?
I just received word that the bishop of a diocese is sending a priest-monsignor to administer the Sacrament of Confirmation in the traditional Latin rite to confirmandi who are attached to the parish in which the TLM/EF is offered. I do respect that a bishop, without auxiliaries, is going to be stretched very thin in a large and growing diocese, and I don't question the validity of the sacrament when administered by a priest --- I was confirmed in like fashion (baptized and confirmed as a young adult on the same day) --- but it seems to me, to be more appropriate, and the ideal, for the bishop to administer confirmation.
Again, is this common? I've never heard of it before, i.e., sending a priest to a parish to confer the sacrament to an entire age group in a parish or parishes.
I would add that this particular bishop is very able in Latin, celebrates the EF frequently himself, and there seems to be no reason, other than logistics and scheduling, that he could not easily do it himself. Not being critical, just noting the facts as I see them.
Thoughts?
I have no idea how common this practice currently is. In the 1980s it was very common in my diocese. The bishop only did a few confirmations. He had decided that confirmations were to take place every year throughout the entire diocese on Pentecost. The confirmands were confirmed at age 7 and were confirmed by their parish priest.
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