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Post by rights on Jul 14, 2021 17:42:36 GMT
Do you believe Transubstantiation happens without a validly ordained Priest?   |
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 14, 2021 18:17:26 GMT
No. Not possible. A valid Mass requires a validly ordained priest.
Whether someone who attends a Protestant church, whose priest or minister believes that some kind of Real Presence is confected --- regardless of what they call it, sacramental union, consubstantiation, or choose not to define it at all --- receives spiritual graces, that I cannot say. God surely looks at the heart. If a devout Anglican truly believes, and if his priest truly believes, that the Body of Christ has been confected, Our Lord may provide consolations similar to those obtained through a spiritual communion as Catholics practice it, but as far as transubstantiation taking place, nope, sorry.
I was surprised to learn, several months ago, that even Methodists --- who do not even purport to have a valid sacramental priesthood, they do not have priests --- believe in a kind of Real Presence in their Eucharist. At least they are drawing the correct conclusions from the clear words of Scripture. Just the other morning, I stumbled upon a Presbyterian communion service on TV, and one minister held up a big loaf of something that looked like braided challah bread, and broke it as he pronounced the words, while another minister poured wine into a cup and recited the words appropriate to that part. The faithful were given pre-made "communion kits", sealed packs, to take back to their seats and commune. Consolations, perhaps, a type of spiritual communion, perhaps, but no Real Presence. I don't believe the Presbyterians are even under that sort of impression.
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Post by pianistclare on Jul 14, 2021 18:21:08 GMT
Yes, a Methodist friends says they do, but they do not have validly ordained clergy, so, a moot point.
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Post by katy777 on Jul 14, 2021 19:23:48 GMT
When our priest is away we have a morning prayer service with a deacon. So no it's not possible.
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Post by pianistclare on Jul 14, 2021 19:24:58 GMT
We also have a Communion service when it's Father's day off. Often led by a Deacon, but sometimes a lay person. Pre-consecrated hosts from the Tabernacle.
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Post by AgnusDei on Jul 15, 2021 0:54:23 GMT
No.
Dominus vobiscum
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Post by katy777 on Jul 16, 2021 1:52:23 GMT
Our priest does not consecrate hosts for morning prayer service.
Usually when he's there we have Benediction and that doesn't happen either.
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Post by homeschooldad on Jul 16, 2021 4:01:20 GMT
Our priest does not consecrate hosts for morning prayer service. Usually when he's there we have Benediction and that doesn't happen either. But is there not a ciborium with an ample supply of consecrated Hosts in it, in the tabernacle? It's my understanding that this is the usual practice. There always need to be at least a few Hosts available for Viaticum or other reasons one might request communion.
This said, I do understand that a "prayer service" does not necessarily need to contain a communion rite.
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Post by pianistclare on Jul 16, 2021 16:05:14 GMT
Agree. There should always be consecrated hosts in the ciboria, for Samaritans to take to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. Those hosts may also be used for Communion services in the absence of a priest.
Likewise, Fr exposes the Blessed Sacrament for a Holy Hour, and one of the Lay EMHC's reposes it after 90 minutes. Typical. And permitted. Believe my priests is UBER conservative, and he would not even think about any of this if there was the slightest issue.
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Post by katy777 on Jul 16, 2021 22:22:51 GMT
Our old priest did that and gave all EMHCS the opportunity to give communion both at morning mass and homebound. This priest no. Too much shady stuff going on here. I would say Satanic but it's true. Extra caution.
Bizarre people in farmland and I'll leave it at that.
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Post by po18guy on Jul 18, 2021 1:26:04 GMT
Do you believe Transubstantiation happens without a validly ordained Priest? I am wondering why this question is even asked. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 19:05:57 GMT
Jesus only had the 12 Apostles when he established the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
The Apostles and their successors, never had anyone other than presbyters(priests) consecrate the Eucharist.
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Post by tth1 on Aug 23, 2021 14:53:57 GMT
Do you believe Transubstantiation happens without a validly ordained Priest? No, it could not possibly happen. All of the sacraments have a number of requirements for their valid celebration, e.g. minister, form, matter, etc. The confection of the Most Holy Eucharist requires the minister be a priest. This sacrament has no extraordinary ministers. Therefore, no validly ordained priest equals no valid confection of the Eucharist.
There was a case some time ago (I can't remember the full details) where it was discovered that a priest hadn't be validly baptised. Therefore, because he was not baptised he could not have been validly ordained. Part of a sacrament's validity depends on it being administered to a recipient entitled to receive it. It created a lot of work for some people looking up people this priest had married and administered other sacraments to in order that their situations could be corrected. The man in question, a faithful priest with no malicious intent, was baptised and then ordained and he resumed his ministry in the Church. So, yes the sacraments very much depend on who the minister is.
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