joeg
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Aug 22, 2021 2:34:08 GMT
Dr. Robert Malone says he is arguably the inventor of the mRNA vaccine. He also was a medical school professor for over ten years. So why is he so lukewarm about his brain-child, the mRNA vaccines for Covid 19? I posted this in the Denzinger section because I'd like to focus on his refreshing ethical thought. It reads somewhat like the medical moral text book I have from my days in the seminary. I don't know why we don't hear this type of ethical thought coming from church leadership? Have they forgotten what is in their medical moral text books?! Robert Malone, Inventor of mRNA vaccines and RNA as a drug, Bench to Bedside vaccines and biologics consulting.www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventorOK, time for another one of these. My positions -
1) bioethics require full risk disclosure and free choice. Neither of these are being met.
2) For high risk populations, the risk/benefit ratio for the USA vaccines seem to make sense.
3) We do not know all the risks yet.
4) for pediatric and young adult populations, the data do not currently support adequate risk/benefit for USA vaccines. So stop.
5) mandating vaccines is wrong
6) censorship is wrong
7) attacking others credibility as a way to win arguments is the refuge of the stupid
8) Dr. @gvdbossche is completely correct as a virologist and vaccinologist in everything that I have read of his. Time will prove him right - I am confident in that. But IMO as a physician, the death and disability in the high risk populations still merits vaccination
9) There is a concerted effort to suppress information and dissent in support of the nobel lie
10) the noble lie is-
a. we have to reach herd immunity for economic recovery and to minimize death and disability
b. these genetic vaccines are the only path available to herd immunity
c. these genetic vaccines are perfectly safe
Each of these statements are demonstrably false.
For those who want to learn more about the views of "Dr @gvdbossche" ( Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche) mentioned above check out this excerpt of an interview of him with Dr Chris Martenson. youtu.be/cjMZvpmuaKY?t=878 Dr Vanden Bossche is a career vaccine industry insider who worked for the Bill Gates foundation, GAVI, some vaccine manufacturers and taught in a university for a number of years. Yet he is quite critical about a number of current vaccine policies. If he is correct, the current vaccine program is going to lead to more infectious variants, more illness among younger people and not give us the desired herd immunity. He proposes a different type of vaccine--link to that interview if requested. Due to the deception from Fauci and friends I've been searching for medical school professors who have relevant knowledge and ethics that fit with Catholic moral beliefs. Dr Malone and Dr Vanden Bossche are examples of elite vaccine experts who don't share the same views as Fauci and friends. Why? |
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Post by StellaMaris on Aug 22, 2021 18:08:44 GMT
What vaccine is this?
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joeg
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Aug 24, 2021 5:06:31 GMT
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Post by ratioetfides on Aug 24, 2021 20:19:40 GMT
As discussed before David Groski MD among others, has considered the claims of Malone respectfulinsolence.com/2021/07/13/is-mrna-vaccine-inventor-robert-malone-being-erased-for-his-claims-about-covid-19/On point to this particular subject: ‘People are being given informed consent. What Malone doesn’t like is that they aren’t being given what I like to call “misinformed refusal,” in which risks of vaccines are vastly exaggerated and benefits denied, all to paint a distorted risk-benefit picture that leads people to fear the vaccine.’ *It is important to keep in mind Malone has received the Moderna vaccine.* Gorski has also addressed the recent claims by Boschee, in addition to some of his previous claims: respectfulinsolence.com/2021/08/23/geert-vanden-bossche-is-back-and-still-blaming-vaccines-for-covid-19-variants/As his conclusion: ‘Is it possible that SARS-CoV-2 could evolve variants that evade immunity from vaccines? Of course. Vaccination is a selective pressure, but it’s just one of many, and the current crop of variants all evolved before there even was a mass vaccination program. The bottom line is that the best way to forestall the development of further variants, one or more of which might be able to evade the immune response, whether due to prior infection or due to vaccination, is by vaccinating as many people as possible as fast as possible and following public health interventions:’ ‘The CDC concurs. The bottom line is that the best conditions for the emergence of more dangerous and transmissible variants are when SARS-CoV-2 is spreading unchecked all over the world through billions of people. The best way to decrease the chances of variants like this emerging is to do whatever is feasible to decrease transmission and thereby decrease dramatically the number of people being infected. The vaccines work, but probably not as well for the Delta variant. Moreover, vaccination doesn’t have to completely block transmission to be effective in helping to end the pandemic. Finally, Vanden Bossche hasn’t said anything new compared to his previous claims. He’s just pointed to the emergence of more transmissible variants, which happened before the mass vaccination program, and blamed the vaccine for them.’ |
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Post by StellaMaris on Aug 24, 2021 22:05:15 GMT
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Post by katy777 on Aug 26, 2021 21:01:48 GMT
Does not sound confident.
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toddy
Full Member
Posts: 228
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Post by toddy on Aug 27, 2021 5:30:56 GMT
I want new better vaccine without bad side effects.
I took low dose of very rare herbal tea from my ancestors weekly last year to ward off covid before the vaccine. I used to boil this herb to heal people suffering hemorrhage flu epidemic, malaria; etc. when I was little.
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Post by po18guy on Aug 27, 2021 6:25:59 GMT
Bad reactions have to do with your immune system and not not not the vaccine. Just as Covid does not normally kill by itself - the patient's own hyper-reactive immune system kills them. Sure, the Covid triggers it, but our immune systems are a double-edged sword, being able both to save us and to kill us.
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toddy
Full Member
Posts: 228
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Post by toddy on Aug 27, 2021 21:54:36 GMT
OK, time for another one of these. My positions -
1) bioethics require full risk disclosure and free choice. Neither of these are being met.
2) For high risk populations, the risk/benefit ratio for the USA vaccines seem to make sense.
3) We do not know all the risks yet.
4) for pediatric and young adult populations, the data do not currently support adequate risk/benefit for USA vaccines. So stop.
5) mandating vaccines is wrong
6) censorship is wrong
7) attacking others credibility as a way to win arguments is the refuge of the stupid
8) Dr. @gvdbossche is completely correct as a virologist and vaccinologist in everything that I have read of his. Time will prove him right - I am confident in that. But IMO as a physician, the death and disability in the high risk populations still merits vaccination
9) There is a concerted effort to suppress information and dissent in support of the nobel lie
10) the noble lie is-
a. we have to reach herd immunity for economic recovery and to minimize death and disability
b. these genetic vaccines are the only path available to herd immunity
c. these genetic vaccines are perfectly safe
Each of these statements are demonstrably false.
________________________________________________________
Very true, unscientific.
I heard they convinced no vaccination was the covid cause and
so I think they prepare the gradual path to implant a skin chip [beast mark].
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Post by ratioetfides on Aug 27, 2021 22:05:05 GMT
OK, time for another one of these. My positions - 1) bioethics require full risk disclosure and free choice. Neither of these are being met. 2) For high risk populations, the risk/benefit ratio for the USA vaccines seem to make sense. 3) We do not know all the risks yet. 4) for pediatric and young adult populations, the data do not currently support adequate risk/benefit for USA vaccines. So stop. 5) mandating vaccines is wrong 6) censorship is wrong 7) attacking others credibility as a way to win arguments is the refuge of the stupid 8) Dr. @gvdbossche is completely correct as a virologist and vaccinologist in everything that I have read of his. Time will prove him right - I am confident in that. But IMO as a physician, the death and disability in the high risk populations still merits vaccination 9) There is a concerted effort to suppress information and dissent in support of the nobel lie 10) the noble lie is- a. we have to reach herd immunity for economic recovery and to minimize death and disability b. these genetic vaccines are the only path available to herd immunity c. these genetic vaccines are perfectly safe Each of these statements are demonstrably false. ________________________________________________________ Very true, unscientific. I heard they convinced no vaccination was the covid cause and so I think they prepare the gradual path to implant a skin chip [beast mark]. Going to give Robert Malone, the self proclaimed mRNA ‘inventor,’ a citation credit for his words? Is there too much of a credibility issue to give the citation? |
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joeg
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Aug 28, 2021 1:41:58 GMT
Going to give Robert Malone, the self proclaimed mRNA ‘inventor,’ a citation credit for his words? Is there too much of a credibility issue to give the citation? Do you really think Twitter would allow him to make that claim if he did not have good evidence for it? In an interview he said something like "arguably" the inventor of the mRNA vaccine. Elsewhere he talks about Linked In deleting his account. Then so many scientists complained that their VP contacted Malone directly and apologized! He was a long time med school prof and more recently had a grant from the DoD to test substances for protective effects against chem warfare agents. Malone is not some country doctor. I think you'll appreciate Malone's ethics. He previously took a hit to his career when he chose to become a whistleblower. He explains in this interview. mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/ExpertInterviewTranscripts/DrMercola-DrRobertMalone-BioethicsintheAgeofCOVID19.pdfMy best guess is that Malone honestly thinks the risks from the hastily tested vaccines outweigh the benefits for low risk people, but the vaccines are a reasonable option for high risk people. Two of his better interviews Censorship www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHSe-fcA6r0The Vaccine Causes The Virus To Be More Dangerous 7-21. Robert Malone www.brighteon.com/0f423388-68de-40c7-85d6-034991ec403aIn that video he talks about the dreaded Antibody Dependent Enhancement that has caused some previous vaccines to become failures. He may be correct about ADE signals in fairly recent data. A recent French computer modeling study also warned about ADE and warned that new vaccines may be needed. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8351274/btw Fauci and others explaining antibody dependent enhancement and similar undesirable vaccine issues. youtu.be/2Ia6DpGjAA4?t=102 |
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Post by ratioetfides on Aug 29, 2021 13:03:56 GMT
^ Have you ever been on twitter? It is full of all kinds of garbage. Practically every anti-vaxxer or ‘scientist’ who carries water for the anti-vaxxer cause has a presence on Twitter. Huh? Arguably? His website www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventorannounces triumphantly: ‘Dr. Malone is the inventor of mRNA vaccines (and DNA vaccines). He also discovered lipid mediated and naked RNA transfection technologies.’ What are you talking about, arguably? The claim is clear and emphatic! LinkedIn took his page down and then resorted his account. What’s the point? This is fairly common practice across social medias. Seems a decision was appealed and overturned. Malone is strong, albeit anecdotal, evidence being a professor or doing work for the DoD does not provide strong protection against becoming a crank. There is no point in giving Joe Mercola, the #1 source of COVID misinformation, any more clout or exposure. It doesn’t seem Malone is worthy of any ‘ethical’ pedestal at this time. Not going to watch a 1 hr video. But it is interesting to see it is a video on a public platform of him whining about censorship…really? So billions of doses of vaccines have been injected into humans. 10’s of thousands of humans were in clinical trials, hundred of millions of humans have been infected with the virus…WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF ADE? Where is even one piece of evidence of ADE IN A HUMAN? Why can the ‘evidence’ only be found in a French computer model? The video from Brian Shields YouTube page is shameful. It is a cut a paste piece of propaganda. Why slide in conversations about totally different virus types on the down low and pretend they are just the same as Corona viruses? Have these people no shame? Have people no shame in promoting this type of propaganda and misinformation? |
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Post by tth1 on Sept 5, 2021 13:59:24 GMT
Dr. Robert Malone says he is arguably the inventor of the mRNA vaccine. He also was a medical school professor for over ten years. So why is he so lukewarm about his brain-child, the mRNA vaccines for Covid 19? I posted this in the Denzinger section because I'd like to focus on his refreshing ethical thought. It reads somewhat like the medical moral text book I have from my days in the seminary. I don't know why we don't hear this type of ethical thought coming from church leadership? Have they forgotten what is in their medical moral text books?! Robert Malone, Inventor of mRNA vaccines and RNA as a drug, Bench to Bedside vaccines and biologics consulting.www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventorOK, time for another one of these. My positions -
1) bioethics require full risk disclosure and free choice. Neither of these are being met.
2) For high risk populations, the risk/benefit ratio for the USA vaccines seem to make sense.
3) We do not know all the risks yet.
4) for pediatric and young adult populations, the data do not currently support adequate risk/benefit for USA vaccines. So stop.
5) mandating vaccines is wrong
6) censorship is wrong
7) attacking others credibility as a way to win arguments is the refuge of the stupid
8) Dr. @gvdbossche is completely correct as a virologist and vaccinologist in everything that I have read of his. Time will prove him right - I am confident in that. But IMO as a physician, the death and disability in the high risk populations still merits vaccination
9) There is a concerted effort to suppress information and dissent in support of the nobel lie
10) the noble lie is-
a. we have to reach herd immunity for economic recovery and to minimize death and disability
b. these genetic vaccines are the only path available to herd immunity
c. these genetic vaccines are perfectly safe
Each of these statements are demonstrably false.
For those who want to learn more about the views of "Dr @gvdbossche" ( Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche) mentioned above check out this excerpt of an interview of him with Dr Chris Martenson. youtu.be/cjMZvpmuaKY?t=878 Dr Vanden Bossche is a career vaccine industry insider who worked for the Bill Gates foundation, GAVI, some vaccine manufacturers and taught in a university for a number of years. Yet he is quite critical about a number of current vaccine policies. If he is correct, the current vaccine program is going to lead to more infectious variants, more illness among younger people and not give us the desired herd immunity. He proposes a different type of vaccine--link to that interview if requested. Due to the deception from Fauci and friends I've been searching for medical school professors who have relevant knowledge and ethics that fit with Catholic moral beliefs. Dr Malone and Dr Vanden Bossche are examples of elite vaccine experts who don't share the same views as Fauci and friends. Why? Where in the webpage you linked does it say this guy is lukewarm about the use of mRNA technology in vaccine development? He most certainly is not the inventor of mRNA vaccines, which has been a highly collaborative work of many scientists and institutions. |
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joeg
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by joeg on Sept 5, 2021 23:20:52 GMT
Aug 29, 2021 9:03:56 GMT -4 ratioetfides said: > Have you ever been on twitter? It is full of all kinds of garbage. Practically every anti-vaxxer or ‘scientist’ who carries water for the anti-vaxxer cause has a presence on Twitter. == There has been so much censorship of people with a relevant PhD that almost no one can have honest, informed consent. Most people are saturated with the Big Pharma half-truths and spin. They don't hear from the many long-time vaccine experts who strongly disagree with various vaccine related policies. > There is no point in giving Joe Mercola, the #1 source of COVID misinformation, any more clout or exposure. It doesn’t seem Malone is worthy of any ‘ethical’ pedestal at this time. == That is the spin from the Pharma salesmen and friends. Mercola's articles typically have a dozen references. I encourage people to check out some of his information so you won't just be limited to the Pharma sales pitch. Look at the references and see if you think it qualifies as "misinformation" or just data that is inconvenient for the Pharma salesmen == This is one of Dr. Mercola's responses to the Biden accusation about misinformation. It includes a report from Facebook contradicting Biden. Mercola wrote: "Facebook is now calling out the CCDH for having manufactured a faulty narrative without evidence against the 12 individuals targeted in its reports (myself included)" media.mercola.com/ImageServer/Public/2021/September/PDF/chicago-tribune-misinformation-pdf.pdf>...…WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF ADE [antibody dependent enhancement]? Where is even one piece of evidence of ADE IN A HUMAN? Why can the ‘evidence’ only be found in a French computer model? == Notice in the recent French computer modeling study that they talk about a balance between declining antibody protection from Delta variant and an increase in ADE which makes people more vulnerable to Delta. With Delta the balance is tipping towards harmful ADE. == The reduced efficacy of the vaccines seems consistent with the French study. == The Mayo clinic study in the US and data from Israel report <50% effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in preventing infection. www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdfwww.lifesitenews.com/news/israel-sees-14-covid-breakthroughs-from-1-week-of-pfizer-booster-shots/?utm_source=home_more_news&utm_campaign=usa== Hopefully the following report is just an aberration, not an indication of what is to come due to some combination of ADE and the steep drop in vaccine related antibodies that are also less protective against Delta variant. "Aug. 5, Dr. Kobi Haviv, director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem, appeared on Channel 13 News, reporting that 95% of severely ill COVID-19 patients are fully vaccinated, and that they make up 85% to 90% of COVID-related hospitalizations overall. As of Aug. 2, 66.9% of Israelis had received at least one dose of Pfizer’s injection, which is used exclusively in Israel; 62.2% had received two doses." childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-manipulated-data-create-pandemic-unvaxxed-narrative/== Some of the reduced efficacy of Pfizer may be due to the steep drop in antibodies, much steeper than in people who have natural immunity after recovering. Of course Pfizer will be happy to sell you a booster every 8 months to compensate for their poor quality product. www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262111v1== The important take away about ADE is that they can't predict it! Yet it has happened with previous failed coronavirus vaccines. This information really should be a mandatory part of informed consent before getting the vaccine. Even if the vaccine provides some protection today, there is a chance it will do more harm than good later. However I bet Big Pharma will offer to sell you another vaccine to fix any problems caused by their previous one. I bet their pro-abortion friends on the far Left will be happy to promote mandatory vaccination for their faithful campaign contributors. == Look at the efficacy of natural immunity after recovering from infection in contrast to the relatively weak Pfizer vaccine. Don't expect to hear that from Biden and is lackeys at the CDC, FDA, NIH. Those who received Pfizer have roughly a 7x greater risk of breakthrough infection than the unvaccinated who have natural immunity from recovering from infection. www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf== The vaccine salesmen want vaccine passports but not for those who have superior natural immunity! == This is not an anti-vaccine post. I think, like Dr. Malone and other vaccine experts, that making the new vaccines available to high risk people is reasonable. Even if the vaccines backfire due to ADE or other paradoxical immune response in the future, they still buy high-risk people some time. Hopefully there are better antiviral treatments in the pipeline and greater production of Ivermectin and other medications in the near future. == However I agree with Malone and others that it does not make sense to give these new vaccines to low risk young adults and youth who have so little risk of a bad outcome from the virus. <1% of the deaths have been in people with 0 high risk factors. www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/pdf/21_0123.pdf ( check out the tables on p11ff) == Joeg |
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Post by ratioetfides on Sept 6, 2021 0:54:44 GMT
^ Censorship? Who is keeping all these relevant PhD’s from speaking out or publishing? They want to complain about losing accounts because they violate terms of use/community standards and claim it’s censorship? Really? They all have their own websites and they all can be hosted on podcasts, radio shows, blogs, Rumble, GAB, MeWe, Substack, wherever…publish their own literature…literally. Mercola and Malone are even on Twitter! Mercola has his website where he pimps all kinds of products, treatments, and information in exchange for your money. Malone has his website where he definitively claims to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines and pimps his consulting services. But it’s the greed of big pharma to worry about, right? Here is a 2009 article about Mercola…10 years before anyone even knew COVID-19 would be a thing: web.archive.org/web/20090706135749/http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/may2006/sb20060523_063274.htm‘What struck me wasn't his claim that pasteurization destroys many important nutrients in milk -- many alternative-care practitioners say that -- but his requirement that I supply my e-mail address before he would send me a link to view his article.’ ‘I quickly discovered that Dr. Mercola gives the lie to the notion that holistic practitioners tend to be so absorbed in treating patients that they aren't effective businesspeople. While Mercola on his site seeks to identify with this image by distinguishing himself from "all the greed-motivated hype out there in health-care land," he is a master promoter, using every trick of traditional and Internet direct marketing to grow his business.’ The article goes on, for anyone wishing to read: 1. Use promises of "free" to sell costly stuff… 2. Add in all kinds of "bonuses…” 3. Use real news to sell more products… 4. Don't be afraid to use scare tactics… It it’s beyond comical the ‘evidence’ ADE is actually occurring in human beings can be found in a French computer model. This is not evidence ADE is happening in humans. This is evidence someone has written a modeling program saying ADE MIGHT happen in humans. Hundreds of Millions of infections…Billions of inoculations…No human evidence…none. But it will come any day…Surely in 6 months…Surely next year…Surely within 5 years…etc. Then…let’s just ramble about various claims and use pre-print un-published non-peer review studies as incontrovertible support for the dubious claims. (The sites hosting these studies literally have a high viz warning not to take the information hosted as accepted science or to report the results as factual information.) For good measure let’s throw in a couple sources known to be literal propaganda machines; at least one of which is a mouth piece for literal Russian propaganda. To top it all off let’s make an obviously anti-vaxx post full of misinformation and dubious claims supported by fully discredited sources and then claim it’s not an anti-vaxx post. Everyone just saw it was an anti-vaxx post, bruh. But it was a fun read. Get a vaccine…don’t get a vaccine. Nobody cares. Spread all types of misinformation…many will care…more should be pointing out the moral implications of doing so. |
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