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Post by tisbearself on Jul 28, 2023 15:02:12 GMT
In the US, the big debate in the news today is whether she or Miley Cyrus was right in their big argument where she told Miley not to appear nude because the music industry would exploit her and throw her away. Sinead is of course right, but on the other hand if you're going to push for women and artists making their own independent choices, it's kind of hard to be lecturing a fellow female artist about them making the "wrong" choice just because you personally disagree with it.
Most US people think of Sinead as a weird-looking one-hit wonder, not a national treasure. The fact that she was mentally unstable and ended up converting to Islam and going around in a head covering just adds to the pile of dismissive dislike.
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 28, 2023 15:19:33 GMT
Totally different take in Ireland, there she is for bad or good an iconic figure. I've had some bloke on another forum who is an Orangeman from the north go on about, 'No Catholic Mass or burial will get her out of Hell.' Several other people, including me reminded her she was a Muslim so she may not be having a Catholic funeral and in fact, she should have been buried by now according to Muslim law which stipulates burials should be as soon after death as possible.
The family haven't made plain how they wished her buried and it is likely up to her father who is still alive or her kids to make this call. Dr Ali Selim who heads the Muslim Cultural Centre in Dublin has offered his services if they choose to go with a Muslim burial.
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Post by farronwolf on Jul 28, 2023 16:30:16 GMT
I have not kept up with Sinead over the past years. I do own several of her albums, as she put out some good music. As a singer/songwriter she and Tracy Chapman had a knack for addressing social issues in their music.
While I don't look to entertainers to help form any opinions on political or socials issues, the fact that some of them choose to do it within their music and are able to do it in a manner that is enjoyable to hear does give them credit as an artist in my opinion.
Whether or not she is on her way to heaven, I nor anyone else, is going to be able to answer that question. One does have to take into account, if she did have mental illness, I am certain God takes that into account, and know what her true beliefs are. That is between her and him, and nothing anyone else says matter at this point, it is pure conjecture.
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 28, 2023 16:42:27 GMT
No one will be able to answer the question of whether she is on her way to Heaven. I have had my own struggles with issues over mental health and have been to some very places with that so Sinead's struggle strikes a chord with me. Her funeral arrangements are for her family to sort out. Dr Selim only offered his services in case they chose to bury her as a Muslim. There are issues that might arise with that due to rules over the repatriation of bodies in Islam. In theory, Islam does not allow this. However, how closely that rule is followed tends to vary quite a lot in reality. Also, in theory, women and children are not supposed to attend funerals. Again, this rule gets broken quite a lot in reality and whether it is enforced depends on the territory.
It is sure there will be a media circus around it wherever she is buried. David Bowie managed to avoid that for his family by opting for direct cremation. However, cremation is forbidden for Muslims. At best if they are lucky the family might be able to keep the media out. In fact I am hoping they can do so.
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 28, 2023 16:50:44 GMT
Here's Sinead reading the Proclamation of the Republic. The Irish govt asked various noteworthy people to do so in the run-up to the 1916 events in Ireland. Go forward one minute to skip the producer of the series waffling a bit: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllV3EN9MA
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Post by tisbearself on Jul 28, 2023 22:59:22 GMT
Several folks have already requested Masses be said for her. The Lord looks after abuse victims and the mentally ill. I'm sure he has the situation well in hand.
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Post by tisbearself on Jul 29, 2023 14:25:05 GMT
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 29, 2023 15:07:51 GMT
Here's RTE's special section on Sinead O'Connor: www.rte.ie/culture/sineadoconnor/Meanwhile, the BBC has an article which has virtually elevated her to the position of being a martyr: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66330500It's noterworthy the BBC have used a photo from the period when Sinead was a priest in the Irish Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church and using the name Mother Bernadette Mary Nice Les Paul Custom though. Some of the writing in this article is fulsome: O'Connor was a lighthouse for those who felt adrift in Irish society. She offered a new moral compass beyond the lie of societal piety, one that pointed towards an uncharted direction of authenticity. She rejected all notion of Catholic shame. While her actions were sometimes unfairly characterised as reckless, she was attempting to both expose and damn this shame. Far before people could converse fluently in therapy and wellness-speak, O'Connor identified the core problem of human strife and Irish self-loathing - childhood trauma. She equated the entire society's psyche to that of an abused child. So when O'Connor broke through in 1987 with Mandinka, there's a reason, 36 years later, the lyric that's still roared the loudest is: "I don't know no shame, I feel no pain." She then embarked upon a career that was rooted in doing the sort of thing that often had severe consequences in Ireland - she rebelled. O'Connor took that defiance across the Atlantic and it rebounded back to Ireland. Her appearance on Late Show with David Letterman in 1988 was a shock to multiple systems; Irish society, the music industry, the genre of female Irish alternative rock she was honing for herself. Her shaved head appeared to signal not just to punk but to a hidden gesture of humiliation imposed on women institutionalised in Ireland.
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Post by tisbearself on Jul 29, 2023 17:13:24 GMT
BBC has never missed a chance to criticize Catholicism or Ireland. There are certain subjects where I simply tune out their coverage and those are two of them.
Are there any Islamic news outlets discussing Sinead from a Muslim viewpoint?
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 29, 2023 17:38:29 GMT
Yes, there were a couple. The head of the Islamic cultural centre who offered to conduct her funeral is also a lecturer at University College Dublin and the Centre was one Sinead visited a lot and of the Imams there had this to say: uk.movies.yahoo.com/sinead-o-connor-blessed-soul-151454969.htmlThe BBC definitely loves this image of 'shame-faced Catholics.' It's eye-watering, this is not how I grew up and I don't walk around with a constant guilt trip banging in my head or ashamed of sex or any of these other stereotypes.
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Post by tisbearself on Jul 29, 2023 17:42:23 GMT
It's the BBC. Bunch of mostly Godless atheists wandering around in the fog like St Dominic Savio saw. Best ignored on the topic of religion. Trust me if serious major prolonged disaster were to strike, it would be amazing how fast some of these people would rediscover God.
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 29, 2023 18:57:54 GMT
I find it weird to have outlived her. I was there when she was first becoming famous and when she was the subject of battles about her versus Bono and U2 in school common rooms. Now U2 are slowly becoming a relic themselves although they managed to stay up with the zeitgeist for a good while. The Rolling Stones meanwhile seem to keep going on and on, although realistically another five or ten years max will see the end of that I'd think.
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Post by theguvnor on Jul 29, 2023 21:58:47 GMT
I thought given music is a prayer I'd find some of Sinead's songs to celebrate her life. While the media has gone overboard she was an important figure in Ireland's history. So let her own music tell her story as she leave this mortal world: Here she is with the late Jah Wobble, a man who never made it really big but is fabulous musician. Hilariously they are been introduced by Philip Schofield (who is now in disgrace) which means this was on Kids TV: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwGEsCKv-H8 'The Emperor's New Clothes': www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhfATC9baPoThis contains her famous lines, ' “They laugh cos they know they’re untouchable, not because what I said was wrong” 'The Last Day of Our Acquaintance' www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiEcut07GrM'Fire On Babylon' www.youtube.com/watch?v=R29W_PvTT7M&t=15sAnd I'll close with a song which is very Irish. Here's Sinead covering 'Raglan Road' which is adapted from a poem by Patrick Kavanagh. It's often used at funerals in Ireland so it seems appropriate. www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6zqb3gf5aA
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Post by tth1 on Aug 4, 2023 14:49:27 GMT
Another wonderful talent lost. Watched a YouTube clip of her singing "Northing Compare 2U" and her talent was amazing. I can't sing so I admire anyone who can. But Sinead's talent was brilliant. Her voice control blew me away. It's quite sad that such talent often seems to come with personal demons.
May the Angels carry her aloft to rest in the peace of God's loving care. May she rest in peace.
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Post by theguvnor on Aug 4, 2023 15:55:28 GMT
Her body has just been released to the family after the autosopy: www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/breaking-sinead-oconnors-body-released-30624469I knew she was living in London but not in Brick Lane. That's about twenty minutes from me by bus, and my parents lived there at one point. Although In an address was nowhere as posh. It was formerly populated by Jewish, Irish and Eastern Europeans. In the last 50 years it has become more of an Asian area and is now slowly transitioning to a gentrified area in some spots. I also hadn't realized she was named after the wife of Eamon DeValera because the doctor who delivered was Vivion DeValera, the Son of Eamon and Sinead DeValera. Given that Eamon DeValera was a very devout Catholic that's a curious intersection of personalities.
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