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Post by Professor Q on Mar 6, 2017 10:26:36 GMT
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Post by upupandaway on Mar 6, 2017 10:47:54 GMT
I'm no expert in music. Heck, I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. But I would like to know what the following would concretely involve.
The music debate strikes me a bit like the OF vs. EF debate: I don't understand why the proponents of a given type can't just let the other type(s) peacefully co-exist without all sides taking pot shots at each other.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 6, 2017 15:54:11 GMT
The issue is really not the music. It's the fact that most parishes expect the Sistine Chapel choir on a dixie cup and a string budget. I have a degree in Music Pedagogy and Performance. Also a Theology degree. I worked as Music Director in a parish for 16 year. SIXTEEN YEARS. When my husband died and I asked for a living wage I was asked "what for? All you do is play the piano and organ". I played all the Masses, led all the choirs, printed all the programs, ordered all the materials, and did the environment for all the seasons. I even sewed altar cloths because they wouldn't buy new ones. There were times picked up all the trash in the parking lot after weddings. I can't tell you how many rose petals I vacuumed up. I split palm branches until my fingers bled. At the time I was making 11, 000 per year.
Sacred music sounds GREAT to me. Anybody want some?
'nuff said. I'll pray and teach anything they want. But a girl's gotta eat.
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Post by tawny on Mar 6, 2017 19:12:15 GMT
The issue is really not the music. It's the fact that most parishes expect the Sistine Chapel choir on a dixie cup and a string budget. I have a degree in Music Pedagogy and Performance. Also a Theology degree. I worked as Music Director in a parish for 16 year. SIXTEEN YEARS. When my husband died and I asked for a living wage I was asked "what for? All you do is play the piano and organ". I played all the Masses, led all the choirs, printed all the programs, ordered all the materials, and did the environment for all the seasons. I even sewed altar cloths because they wouldn't buy new ones. There were times picked up all the trash in the parking lot after weddings. I can't tell you how many rose petals I vacuumed up. I split palm branches until my fingers bled. At the time I was making 11, 000 per year. Sacred music sounds GREAT to me. Anybody want some? 'nuff said. I'll pray and teach anything they want. But a girl's gotta eat. Amen. I'm no music expert either, I can't even hum in tune. But I think Clare hit the nail on the head. Our Music Director said virtually the same thing this past Sunday. In addition, she also teaches music in the school. Salary: $15,000/year, full time.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 7, 2017 2:54:23 GMT
Which is something the parishioners have no clue about. Salaries are secret and even finance committees re fed the old "they're giving their talents back to the Lord. " Well duh, of course. Bit great music doesn't happen on ota own. It takes materials, rehearsal space, a fine instrument and the recruitment of quality singers and musicians. But the prevailing attitude in parishes is "close enough". Priests like to say liturgists are over sensitive, but you get used enough.....you have a difficult time smiling. If not for the love of the Mass, I doubt few musicians would remain. You can get your ego stroke ina garage band. But that's not why we do it. Not by a long shot. It's pretty hurtful when parishioners complain and you have zero budget to buy sheet music, psalm books or or even get the instrument serviced. But, as priests have said to me "no one needs music to have a Mass." True. (shrugs)
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 7, 2017 2:55:55 GMT
Sorry for all the typos. On phone lying down. Really tired.
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oneofthewomen
New Member
I am a "Fruit Loop" in a bowl of "Cheerios"!
Posts: 37
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Post by oneofthewomen on Mar 7, 2017 15:43:47 GMT
Unless and until the Church realizes that this is not the middle ages anymore and it starts actually paying its musicians a livable wage- nothing will ever change! Our Cathedral has a fairly new pipe organ. It cost well over $1.5 million. We have one person on staff who can play it, but she cannot use all the stops, so the instrument is not being used to its full potential. We are lucky to have a world-renowned music school in my community, so we are able to get graduate students to come and play, but they are not paid. The get practice time on the organ, and in return, they will rotate playing for Masses. If we did not have this collaboration, the organ would be a $1.5 million dust collector. I find that the ones who complain the loudest about music are also the ones who do nothing to help, including putting more money in the collection basket. I guess it's just easier to complain than to actually do something. Say a prayer for your parish musicians- they need them! Oh, and a "thank you" for what you do can go a long way too!!
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 7, 2017 15:55:52 GMT
Right. I said this over and over at TOP, but the last couple of Music Director interviews I had, I told them that I was well capable of bringing in more sacred music, some chant for certain liturgies, and a return to some classic pieces as well. Most were horrified at the thought. They wondered could I play the songs from Christian radio? Well of course I can, but they sound HORRIBLE when there is not a band! And it's written for Praise, not for Mass!
Certain pieces can be adapted, but in general, those of us who think they can sing along n the car just fine to the syncopated rhythms, find that's it's much harder from the pew.
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Post by oralabora on Mar 7, 2017 16:21:48 GMT
I know it's probably not helpful but I have been part of a volunteer choir for 15 years; our specialty is Gregorian chant. The notion of making a "living" from an organisation as notoriously cheap as a Catholic diocese/parish seems to be a fantasy. So we do it for the love of the genre. But we don't do anything else except for including some French psalm tone adaptations. I've been doing it for 15 years, but we only sing once a month and we rotate to different parishes each month (we also do the odd concert and the Liturgy of the Hours during Advent, Lent and Holy Saturday). I doubt I'd participate if I had to turn up and keep things cranked up every weekend, for free. We usually require 1 or two rehearsals before we sing a Mass. Most of us are retired but a few still work. For me, it's quite a commitment as I have do drive 90 km to each of the rehearsals and for Mass. Last time I checked gas isn't free, even for the small and efficient compact car that retirement limits me to.
Some parishes like us for the novelty value (Chant! A Novelty! In a Catholic church!). Others don't want to hear the slightest breath of Latin, so we dust off our (figurative) sandals and move on. Our choirmaster has his finger on the pulse of the archdiocese and knows where we will be welcomed and where not to bother asking.
Interestingly, as an aside, there is a parish in one of the more rural extremities of the archdiocese that does (or rather did) both the EF and OF in alternance, being home to a large traditional community (see thread on living in a closed community... this is one of those). One of our choristers has a home there. We asked about chanting Vespers as an opportunity to bring the two sides together (EF+OF). We suggested monastic Vespers to avoid LOTH vs 1960 breviary controversies. Alas the pastor told us that the EF and OF sides are in open warfare, and that the EF group has abandoned the parish and set up an EF Mass in some basement somewhere, the OF group no longer wants to have anything to do with Latin, etc. So sad.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 7, 2017 16:27:15 GMT
The key is though: You guys know how to do it.
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Post by oralabora on Mar 7, 2017 16:38:36 GMT
Oddly enough, we seem to do a better job at attracting "vocations" than either the diocese or the local abbey. We usually get one or two new members each year. So there seems to be a "market" as it were.
However I think if we suggested that the parish PAY us, we'd be laughed all the way to Solesmes. However when a family requests us for a funeral, we do charge a small stipend. Technically that makes us, legally, "professional" musicians. But we don't dole that money out to the individual choristers. We use it to fund choir activities: sending choristers to seminars, paying the abbey's chant director for extra chant lessons, buying books, organizing a pot-luck dinner for us, and the like.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 7, 2017 16:41:18 GMT
Bravo!
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Post by Professor Q on Mar 9, 2017 5:24:40 GMT
This thread has been very informative for me, as it illustrates the disconnect between noble ideals and ground reality.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 9, 2017 13:55:48 GMT
Well, the only thing that really chaps me (because I do understand that parishes don't' know even where to FIND a good Catholic musician <hint....they're sitting in the pews> or want to devote funds) is that often, very often, the way to mend or fix a bad musical situation is simply to rein in a feisty musician, cantor, or to simply amend the method or music selection. Problem solved. But SO MANY TIMES....because they don't pay the person, or they pay them embarrassingly little, priests and parishioners feel that the lone volunteer they have would be SO angry for being given a suggestion, that they forbid anyone from trying to help or explain liturgical practices to them. There have been times when I've given a tidbit of info to a person and they said "OH REALLY? I HAD NO IDEA!".
Because you know, they...really have no idea.
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Post by pianistclare on Mar 9, 2017 16:13:59 GMT
It also aggravates me as a DRE that our children are growing up with no knowledge of basic Catholic hymnody. They have no clue what Tantum Ergo or O Salutaris sounds like, or when they are used. They have never sung Immaculate Mary. The have never heard Come Holy Ghost. but they know very well.....Sing A New Song, I Believe in the Sun, Though the Mountains May Fall, I'm Desperate for You, I'm Getting Back to the Heart of Worship, etc. What??? Listen, I'm no rad trad by any stretch of the imagination, but why are we not singing the obvious on certain days? How is it that no one sings Crown Him with Many Crowns on Christ the King? People think those are the days when you sing pieces by Casting Crowns! Ay yay yay. There are some great modern pieces.....there sure are. But they are not written for liturgy. Their purpose was not for the Mass. They are for gatherings of young people, Praise and Worship events, easy listening, and inspiration in prayer in private. Untrained volunteers simply cannot pull them off with any clarity or vague resemblance to the flashy in-studio versions. Stick to what we can do WELL. Then, as people build competency, go after bigger fish, like Liam Lawton and others who are writing beautiful church music. Ed Bolduc, etc. Then there are the odd practices. Our parish sings the Gospel acclamation before AND AFTER the Gospel in the season of Easter. Joyous yes, but who came up with this "innovation". Someone at a workshop somewhere? The Music Director 2 persons ago did this, and the persons hired after her only heard or knew of her way of doing things because they're both recent converts. They are cutting and pasting her songsheets and changing the dates every year. No matter the cycle. So we have things like Jesus Remember Me in late September. Advent hymns in February. The Old Rugged Cross on Holy Saturday at the Easter Vigil. ??
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