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Post by theguvnor on Oct 11, 2023 21:01:34 GMT
What disgusted me was one Israeli spokesman talking about the Palestinians as animals. He was referencing the Hamas fighters but he then moved to justifying collective punishment:
“We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza,” Gallant said. “There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything will be closed.”
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 11, 2023 21:03:40 GMT
www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/solidarity-vigil-for-palestine-and-gaza-to-be-held-in-sligo/ar-AA1hYrG1embers and supporters of the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign in Sligo will hold a vigil outside Sligo’s General Post Office on Thursday, October 12 at 5 .p.m. The event is one of many being organised nationwide to show solidarity with the people of Palestine and Gaza. Calling for support for the vigil, spokesperson Ms Aine Daly said “Over a thousand Palestinian and Israeli civilians have been killed since Saturday, and the Israeli government has ordered a ‘complete siege’ on the Gaza Strip, where over 2 million civilians live, including a million children.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 21:33:56 GMT
What disgusted me was one Israeli spokesman talking about the Palestinians as animals. He was referencing the Hamas fighters but he then moved to justifying collective punishment: “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza,” Gallant said. “There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything will be closed.” Joseph Goebbels stopped himself right in the middle of saying the German word for "extermination" in reference to the Jews during his "Total War" speech, instead stopping and saying the word for "exclusion" of the Jews. The Israelis aren't even trying to hide their goals. I hope this regime is dismantled as soon as possible. It is ruled by genocidal maniacs with a sense of racial and historical superiority over other peoples.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 11, 2023 22:44:45 GMT
Just wondering, has anyone considered sending in (ostensibly neutral) UN peacekeeping troops?
Keep the two sides apart and force both of them to stop fighting.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 11, 2023 22:49:52 GMT
The Israelis won't accept them. This has been suggested as a solution before.
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 11, 2023 22:56:45 GMT
The Israelis won't accept them. This has been suggested as a solution before. Well, then, that's on the Israelis. After all, they are a member of the United Nations. Would they like to leave the UN? No nation has to stay.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 11, 2023 23:22:59 GMT
The British wouldn't accept such troops in the North of Ireland either. In 1969 The Irish Taoiseach Jack Lynch suggested instead of having either Irish or British troops getting involved peacekeeping troops should have been involved. However, had the British allowed that they would have implicitly recognized the situation was a war. The Israelis have rejected peacekeeping troops using similar logic, that it essentially a domestic disturbance.
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Post by BartholomewB on Oct 12, 2023 11:56:15 GMT
Cardinal Pizzaballa, the Latin patriarch, has been back in Jerusalem since Monday evening. From what I've found online. he doesn't seem to have very much to say about the fighting, at least in public. There's an interview (link below) with AGI, an Italian news agency. Asked about the situation of the Catholic community in the Gaza Strip, he replied, "I don't know anything at the moment because all communications are blocked. We have Caritas Jerusalem offices in Gaza but we cannot physically communicate with them. Maybe in a few days it will be clearer to see if something can be done. Now it is still early. We need to wait a few days." www.agi.it/estero/news/2023-10-11/pizzaballa-pace-soluzione-questione-palestinese-23437352/
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Post by tth1 on Oct 12, 2023 12:12:18 GMT
I do not believe any members of this forum support Hamas and I do believe it is an inappropriate thing to write about your fellow CCS members. I intend to flag this up to the Global Moderator.
No one condones Hamas. The Palestinians have genuine grievances but this is not the way to resolve them.
We must, also, not lose sight of the fact that Israel is not some innocent party in the Middle East Conflict. Its response to Hamas' attack on Israel is completely inappropriate.
My question would be whether Hamas may have a natural-law right to govern Palestine, but not have a right to create war, least of all against innocent civilians (even if one could say "all Israelis are de facto soldiers", due to their universal conscription and likelihood to be called up to military service at any moment, that would not apply to the babies they have killed). I don't know enough about Hamas, to be able to have an opinion of whether there is such a thing as a "Hamas" that is simply the governing authority of Palestine, or whether violence against and hatred of Israel is an intrinsic part of its identity, IOW, can you strip away the latter and still have something called "Hamas"? Too bad there can't be a peaceful two-state solution. No political party has any right to govern Palestine.
I don't think you can say all Israeli adults of a certain age are de facto soldiers because of compulsory military service. Other countries also have this and I don't think anyone would call the citizens of those countries de facto soldiers.
Hatred of Israel and its destruction is what Hamas stands for. They don't want a solution in which Israel exists.
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Post by BartholomewB on Oct 12, 2023 13:34:06 GMT
Latin Patriarch (add to earlier) Yesterday the LPJ website posted a short statement by Cardinal Pizzaballa, including this: "Once again we find ourselves in the midst of a political and military crisis. We have suddenly been catapulted into a sea of unprecedented violence. The hatred, which we have unfortunately already been experiencing for too long, will increase even more, and the ensuing spiral of violence will create more destruction. Everything seems to speak of death. ... "We ask that on Tuesday, October 17, everyone hold a day of fasting, abstinence, and prayer. Let us organize prayer times with Eucharistic adoration and with the recitation of the Rosary to Our Blessed Virgin Mary. Although most probably in many parts of our dioceses circumstances will not permit large gatherings, it is possible to organize simple and sober common moments of prayer in parishes, religious communities, and families." www.lpj.org/posts/a-day-of-fasting-and-prayer.html
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Post by homeschooldad on Oct 12, 2023 18:43:33 GMT
My question would be whether Hamas may have a natural-law right to govern Palestine, but not have a right to create war, least of all against innocent civilians (even if one could say "all Israelis are de facto soldiers", due to their universal conscription and likelihood to be called up to military service at any moment, that would not apply to the babies they have killed). I don't know enough about Hamas, to be able to have an opinion of whether there is such a thing as a "Hamas" that is simply the governing authority of Palestine, or whether violence against and hatred of Israel is an intrinsic part of its identity, IOW, can you strip away the latter and still have something called "Hamas"? Too bad there can't be a peaceful two-state solution. No political party has any right to govern Palestine.
I don't think you can say all Israeli adults of a certain age are de facto soldiers because of compulsory military service. Other countries also have this and I don't think anyone would call the citizens of those countries de facto soldiers.
Hatred of Israel and its destruction is what Hamas stands for. They don't want a solution in which Israel exists.
I have come to realize this about Hamas (been doing some reading the past few days). As I understand it --- and it's a complicated issue, to say the least --- Israel would be agreeable to some kind of two-state solution, which already exists, at least in germ form, with Gaza and much of the West Bank (ruled by Hamas and the PNA respectively). But Hamas, and others, don't want this. They view Israel as occupied territory and want it all to be Palestine, all ruled by them, made Judenrein with the possible exception of Jews whose ancestors lived there before 1948. Judenrein isn't going to happen, the Jews have already been through that, and wouldn't be keen to do it again (again, to say the least), a fortiori WRT what they regard as their ancestral birthright homeland. Not clear what you mean by "no political party has any right to govern Palestine". If they are a state, of one kind or another, do they not have the right to rule themselves as they see fit? Almost all countries have political parties, and very often, one party has a lock on the entire government. Granted, they could do much better than Hamas. No easy solutions, not even if everyone in the region were to convert to Christianity tomorrow (Jewish Christians could still remain culturally Jewish, no issues there).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 1:59:54 GMT
Ayatollah Khamenei had the solution to this conflict just right when he said:
“We do not want the eradication of the Jewish people; we have nothing to do with that! What we want is for the people of Palestine – the true owners of that land: whether Muslims, Christians or Jews in that land – to elect the main elements of their government. They should run their own country. We are advocates of the independence of Palestine. We are advocates of the salvation of Palestine and we are not anti-Jewish people. In our own country, there are many Jews who live in complete security."
- Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran
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Post by tisbearself on Oct 13, 2023 11:41:54 GMT
I talked to a Jewish friend of mine yesterday who has relatives and friends in Israel. She informed me that this is not really about getting control of land. According to her, Hamas just hates Jews and is out to eradicate the Jewish people. That is their goal. Not having space to live or land to own or peaceful co-existence. It makes them impossible to reason with.
This is also the vibe I'm getting from the pro-Palestine demonstrations in USA. Tons of plain ol' anti-Semitism.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 19:49:35 GMT
I talked to a Jewish friend of mine yesterday who has relatives and friends in Israel. She informed me that this is not really about getting control of land. According to her, Hamas just hates Jews and is out to eradicate the Jewish people. That is their goal. Not having space to live or land to own or peaceful co-existence. It makes them impossible to reason with. This is also the vibe I'm getting from the pro-Palestine demonstrations in USA. Tons of plain ol' anti-Semitism. I think it is easy to fall into anti-Semitism when you live for 75 years under the oppression of a state that calls itself Jewish. I am not trying to justify it (if it is true), but it sort of explains why they might be anti-Semitic. Hamas I might add has had no problem meeting with anti-Zionist Jews in the past and praising them and their work. The anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Haredi group "Neturei Karta", which is based in New York, has had its leaders meet the leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran before. In fact, the President of Iran just last September met the Rabbis who lead the group on his trip to New York for his United Nations speech.
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Post by theguvnor on Oct 14, 2023 21:52:21 GMT
www.rte.ie/news/regional/2023/1014/1410927-gaza-march/'Thousands of people have protested in Dublin in support of Palestinians and against Israel's military actions in Gaza. The demonstration marched from O'Connell Street to Shelbourne Road which is the location of the Israeli embassy. The Dublin protest was one of several around the country today organised by the Palestine Solidarity Committee. Several thousand attended including members of the Palestinian community in Ireland. Some expressed fears for their families and friends in Gaza. They have been hearing that conditions in the enclave have been rapidly deteriorating and they are finding it increasingly difficult to keep in touch with their loved ones as power and internet access have been cut.' Meanwhile here in the UK the the leader of the SNP in Scotland has relatives in Gaza: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67078664'The wife of Scotland's First Minister Humza Yousaf said her parents, who have been trapped in Gaza since the Hamas attack on Israel, are "terrified" about what might happen next. Nadia El-Nakla also told BBC News some relatives have had their homes destroyed in missile strikes. Elizabeth El-Nakla and Maged El-Nakla, who live in Dundee, travelled to Gaza last week to see a sick relative. Days into their trip Hamas killed 1,200 people, Israeli officials say. Palestinian health officials say 1,200 people have died in Israeli airstrikes in Gaza as the death toll continues to rise in the conflict. On Tuesday Mr Yousaf called for the creation of a humanitarian corridor in and out of locked-down Gaza. Yousaf's in-laws trapped in Gaza after Israel attacks Tribute to Scottish victim of Hamas attack on Israel Mr and Mrs El-Nakla were visiting their son - a father-of-four - and Mr El-Nakla's 92-year-old mother, who is ill. Ms El-Nakla said: "They are now caught up in a war situation. "My mother says that there is continual bombardment from land, sea and air." She said her mother had not slept since Monday and feels as if "every part of her body is shaking". The family had hoped to escape on Tuesday but the Rafah border, between Gaza and Egypt, was bombed and all Israeli crossings have been shut. Speaking in Bute House, the first minister's official residence in Edinburgh, Ms El-Nakla said: "They are just terrified, absolutely terrified, about what is to come and what is happening right now as we speak."'
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